Douthat: Stopping Campus Rape

[Simfan34]

The guy makes a lot of sense. A great heaping amount of sense:

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http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/29/opinion/sunday/ross-douthat-stopping-campus-rape.html?referrer&_r=0

[Simfan34]

If we are to regard college students as young adults, then we have to be understand what the results of that would be and hold  both men and women accountable for poor judgement on their part. Rights go hand in hand with responsibilities. You cannot have one without the other; are we to treat college students as children who need to be kept on a bit of a leash, or responsible adults. Attempting to have it both ways is intellectually dishonest and fools no one.

The idea of the "parietal" system, while somewhat interesting, might have a downside as it reduces the opposite gender to a mystified "other", which would facilitate objectification of the sort that treats the genders as a "conqueror" or a "conquest", rather than, just, say, people.

But there is the need to accept that while rape is completely and utter despicably and morally abhorrent, trying to throw out any discussion of preventive measures is counterproductive. Robbery is wrong even if I leave my door unlocked. That doesn't mean I don't lock the doors.

We are not helping anyone by shutting down any discussion of how to prevent rapes from happening outside of "people should not rape others". I mean, we don't approach a crime spree by asking "how do we stop people from robbing others". It's actually a bit... bizzare.

[KingSweden]

His first two suggestions are good, it's the third that I don't think is totally workable in this day and age. Defanging the Greek systems (which would never happen) would go a long way to driving parties back to where they are at least moderately supervised.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

How would the second be accomplished?

[Simfan34]

How would the second be accomplished?

By keeping an eye on those organisations, generally speaking. It all has to do with bringing things out into the open. Keeping alcohol illegal encourages further disrespect for the laws and general standards of decency. It would almost certainly foster more responsible alcohol consumption patterns. And who do you think makes all these fake IDs? It can't be anyone good. I'm quite a sure a good amount of those are in the hands of the Triads (I mean, come on, Chinatown and everything).

[bedstuy]

I think college has a weird culture.  In college, I would usually drink heavily only one night a week.  And, often I would consciously try to avoid drinking more than 4-5 shots of liquor or 6-7 beers.  I just developed a sense where I told myself, "hey, drink anymore and your tummy will get upset and you'll have a hangover tomorrow."  I would also spend weekend nights with another group of friends who were less into drinking and we actually had fun without getting drunk. 

But, I felt a weird sort of peer pressure and guilt that I wasn't "having fun" to the proper degree.  Probably most of that pressure is self-created, but I think a lot of people feel that way.  They feel like the drinking culture dominates the social life of their school, not just in numbers but in coolness capital. 

However, it's so difficult to tell an college aged kid, "hey, dude, drinking too much is totally uncool!"  It just sounds like you're being a scold, a narc and a boring nerd.  College students want to think they're adults and they want to have the wild times they imagine in college. And they're right to an extent, college is a good time to try crazy stuff and make some bad decisions. 

With sex, it's a similar dynamic.  I think the hookup culture facilitated by living in dorms and campus adjacent housing is unhealthy for a lot of people.  Without getting to know someone first, you have no idea whether you're sleeping with a decent person.  If you get to know someone and date them a bit before having sex, you're basically performing a background check on them.  If they're a creepy rapist, there's a chance you could find that out before you get to a date-rape type situation.

Then, there's just using some common sense.  Some people blackout at a certain amount of drinking.  I think that means you absolutely can't drink that much.  Some people are attracted to violent, rapey men.  They need to consciously avoid that type of man.  Some people are afraid of intimacy and use alcohol to deal with their fear, they need to realize that and try to have some normal relationships.  So, I guess the answer here is, use common sense, don't drink so much and don't have sex with someone until you've had like 5 actual conversations. 

How do you create that culture on campus?  I think it's difficult.  But, I would avoid pushing harsh rules and try more of an approach of offering moderate alternatives to super crazy binge drinking culture.

[Aliens]

Something less controversial than lowering the drinking age would be making the bar entry age 18/19 (like some college towns already) rather than having it at 21.  If 18-20 year olds can't even legally go into a bar, then there will be more unsupervised parties off-campus.

[Lief 🗽]

All these suggestions seem reasonable.

[dead0man]

Why would anyone let their daughters go to university?

(I don't seriously think that way, just making fun of one of the lefty type that said the same thing about the military a few months ago for the exact same thing)


One thing that would actually help would be to let actual law enforcement and prosecutors investigate and prosecute the cases instead of the school administrators, which happens at way too many schools.

[muon2]

The thread is forgetting the reason the drinking age is at 21. The drinking age was set at 21 in the 1980's because of the high incidence of drinking and driving that was greatest for young drivers. It is cheap and easy to get a driver's license in the US. When I turned 18 I could legally both drink and drive, and in some states at the time fatalities from a DUI were lesser crimes that manslaughter since the driver was clearly impaired, basically the equivalent of temporarily insane. To force the issue and reduce youthful drunk driving the federal government tied highway dollars to a uniform drinking age of 21. Some states sued, but lost and were forced to comply or lose federal dollars and significantly increase gas taxes to pay for the roads.

So it would take an act of Congress to return the drinking age back to the states, and thence to any lower age.  The highest percentage of drunk driving is still with the youngest drivers: 32% of fatalities with drivers 21-24 were over 0.08 BAC, compared to 21% of all drivers in fatal crashes in 2011. So, I don't see how anyone can successfully argue that the issues that drove the original change are sufficiently different to repeal the law.

Something less controversial than lowering the drinking age would be making the bar entry age 18/19 (like some college towns already) rather than having it at 21.  If 18-20 year olds can't even legally go into a bar, then there will be more unsupervised parties off-campus.

This is already the law in IL. The state leaves it to local jurisdictions to set an age as low as 18 for both employment and entry to bars and taverns.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Making alcohol more readily available to college students would probably make the rape problem worse, not better. The idea that frat boys are suddenly going to be responsible with alcohol because they can legally buy it is insane.

[bedstuy]

Making alcohol more readily available to college students would probably make the rape problem worse, not better. The idea that frat boys are suddenly going to be responsible with alcohol because they can legally buy it is insane.

There should be some ingredient in Natty and Busch Lite that makes you temporarily impotent. 

[Badger]

Making alcohol more readily available to college students would probably make the rape problem worse, not better. The idea that frat boys are suddenly going to be responsible with alcohol because they can legally buy it is insane.

There should be some ingredient in Natty and Busch Lite that makes you temporarily impotent. 

Corrected. If you're the type to drink Busch or Natty Light.....

[Lief 🗽]

Making alcohol more readily available to college students would probably make the rape problem worse, not better. The idea that frat boys are suddenly going to be responsible with alcohol because they can legally buy it is insane.

There should be some ingredient in Natty and Busch Lite that makes you temporarily impotent. 

Corrected. If you're the type to drink Busch or Natty Light.....

Hey man, some of us were poor and at the mercy of whoever was paying for beer when we were between the ages of 18 and 20.

[Antonio the Sixth]

None of these proposals addresses the core of the problem.

[dead0man]

Yeah, penises.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I just had some Natty Light. I'll report back on the study tomorrow.

[Hamster]

How would the second be accomplished?

By keeping an eye on those organisations, generally speaking. It all has to do with bringing things out into the open. Keeping alcohol illegal encourages further disrespect for the laws and general standards of decency. It would almost certainly foster more responsible alcohol consumption patterns. And who do you think makes all these fake IDs? It can't be anyone good. I'm quite a sure a good amount of those are in the hands of the Triads (I mean, come on, Chinatown and everything).

Come on dude, it's not that hard to make a fake.

As far as the drinking age goes, having to worry about the legal consequences of calling an ambulance for your friend whose experiencing alcohol poisoning is pretty insane.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Good suggestions, though a summary execution of all fraternity/sorority members would perhaps be more effective.

[IceSpear]

Good suggestions, though a summary execution of all fraternity/sorority members would perhaps be more effective.

Have you ever met anyone that was part of a fraternity or sorority, or do you just assume everyone is like how they're portrayed in movies and TV shows?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Good suggestions, though a summary execution of all fraternity/sorority members would perhaps be more effective.

Have you ever met anyone that was part of a fraternity or sorority, or do you just assume everyone is like how they're portrayed in movies and TV shows?

Quite a few, unfortunately.

[dead0man]

Good suggestions, though a summary execution of all fraternity/sorority members would perhaps be more effective.

This is why people don't take you seriously.

[Simfan34]

None of these proposals addresses the core of the problem.

That being?

[Antonio the Sixth]

None of these proposals addresses the core of the problem.

That being?

That thing which half the forum claims does not exist.

[Mr. Morden]

None of these proposals addresses the core of the problem.

That being?

That thing which half the forum claims does not exist.

The Bradley Effect?