Opinion of climate change policies

[eric82oslo]

Spit it out. What's your take on it?

Al Gore has turned 66 btw. More on his modern life here: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/04/al-gore-is-not-giving-up-106003.html#.U7VTIqOKDVI

[SWE]

Climate change is generally something that I'd consider a bad thing

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Climate change policy was the only reason I became interested in politics. I still can't believe so many people have stuck their heads in the sand over this issue.

I could sell out pretty much all of my other policy positions (if I were a politician) for a decent climate change policy.

[Deus Naturae]

What does the poll question even mean?

[Maxwell]

The climate has changed in the past and then changed back to normal I.E. the Ice Age

so I have no beef with a changing climate.

[bedstuy]

The climate has changed in the past and then changed back to normal I.E. the Ice Age

so I have no beef with a changing climate.

That's funny and all, but I think some people actually believe this.

[RTX]

The climate has changed in the past and then changed back to normal I.E. the Ice Age

so I have no beef with a changing climate.

That's funny and all, but I think some people actually believe this.

Because it's true. The climate is always changing and always will change. Big deal. The dynamics of the sun and natural occurrences (volcanos) have far more impact on the climate than humans.

[Cassius]

The climate's changing. Winter is coming (or, in this case, summer is coming). The climate has been changing since time began. Of course, it brings great perils for mankind; on the other hand of course, I'm sure it will give rise to great opportunities as well. We've been enduring severe changes in the climate for a long time; I don't doubt that we'll be able to do so again.

[bedstuy]

The climate has changed in the past and then changed back to normal I.E. the Ice Age

so I have no beef with a changing climate.

That's funny and all, but I think some people actually believe this.

Because it's true. The climate is always changing and always will change. Big deal. The dynamics of the sun and natural occurrences (volcanos) have far more impact on the climate than humans.

No...

There is a difference between human scale time and geologic time.  In terms of geological time, our current climate change is extremely ramped up because it's man-made.  So, your argument is like saying, I won't get hurt sitting down on my couch, so I won't get hurt if someone throws me into my couch at 900 mph.  The pace matters. 

The other point is that human civilization does not extend to periods where the climate was significantly different than it is today.  And, we're currently living in an ice age by the way.  We've never lived on a planet during an interglacial period.  We may be able to weather the storm so to speak because we're special animals, sure.  But, climate change has killed many of the species in earth history and we're in for at least a major disruption if we radically change the planet we evolved on in the blink of an eye. 

[Mr. Illini]

I'm so encouraged to find out that so many Atlas contributors have scientific evidence to disprove man-made climate change! Congrats everyone, your expertise is fascinating.

[dead0man]

What does the poll question even mean?

indeed....the thread title has the word "policy" in it...but the poll doesn't.  The OP's text makes it all even more confusing.

[eric82oslo]

What does the poll question even mean?

indeed....the thread title has the word "policy" in it...but the poll doesn't.  The OP's text makes it all even more confusing.

Of course it's about policy, I thought this was a political forum.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I'm so encouraged to find out that so many Atlas contributors have scientific evidence to disprove man-made climate change! Congrats everyone, your expertise is fascinating.

I look forward to reading their rebuttals to the 13,950 peer-reviewed climate articles.

[Deus Naturae]

I'm so encouraged to find out that so many Atlas contributors have scientific evidence to disprove man-made climate change! Congrats everyone, your expertise is fascinating.

I look forward to reading their rebuttals to the 13,950 peer-reviewed climate articles.

Who in this thread has denied climate change?

[dead0man]

What does the poll question even mean?

indeed....the thread title has the word "policy" in it...but the poll doesn't.  The OP's text makes it all even more confusing.

Of course it's about policy, I thought this was a political forum.

Climate change policy in general then?  meh

See, it doesn't matter how much us in the west cut our CO2 emissions if Russia, India, the PRC, etc don't do it too.  Yes, we in the west should do what we can, but we shouldn't wreck our economies doing it and we shouldn't encourage the bad countries to use even more CO2 releasing energy either (which is one of the negatives of Cap n' Trade).


...I had more, but I don't want to poison the well.  You guys will do it just fine on your own.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

What does the poll question even mean?

indeed....the thread title has the word "policy" in it...but the poll doesn't.  The OP's text makes it all even more confusing.

Of course it's about policy, I thought this was a political forum.

Climate change policy in general then?  meh

See, it doesn't matter how much us in the west cut our CO2 emissions if Russia, India, the PRC, etc don't do it too.  Yes, we in the west should do what we can, but we shouldn't wreck our economies doing it and we shouldn't encourage the bad countries to use even more CO2 releasing energy either (which is one of the negatives of Cap n' Trade).


...I had more, but I don't want to poison the well.  You guys will do it just fine on your own.

Why wouldn't it matter?  Obviously other countries should be pressured into cutting their emissions, but denouncing it as a lost cause and not doing anything at home would just be counterproductive.  Unfortunately, I can't speak much on Cap and Trade but from the little I've read it sounds like it would have a net positive effect.  A simple Carbon Tax might be a better alternative, though.

[dead0man]

Why wouldn't it matter?

The PRC is polluting as much or more than the west did in the 50s....which was a LOT....LA used to have over a hundred days a year where "smog alerts" would be issued, now few if any...in the 60s hundreds of New Yorkers would die in a single day because of smog....London in the 50s was horrible, THOUSANDS died....that sh**t don't happen anymore.  Unless you live just downwind from China or other similar hell hole.  We learned our lesson and started cleaning up 40 years ago and while far from perfect, we're doing much MUCH better.  Everybody else has the same information we have, but they don't care (enough to do anything about it).  

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Except I didn't say we should do nothing or call it a lost cause.  I said "we should do what we can".

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There are a lot of things wrong with Cap n Trade.  From protectionist nonsense (Euro steel and cement factories aren't held to the same standard other industries are......why?  to protect them from other countries steel and cement industry that doesn't have to live under cap n trade rules), if it's effective and cuts the use of CO2 emitting sources in the west the price will drop, the now cheaper coal is still going to be used, it will just be used in places withOUT the environmental protections we have in the west.  Wouldn't you rather have coal used in a place that will at least scrub the output enough to keep us alive versus a place where there are NO restrictions at all?  Of course it would be better to leave the coal in the ground, but we can't do that yet for various reasons, not the least of which is greenies keeping new nuclear power plants from being built.

[Mr. Illini]

I'm so encouraged to find out that so many Atlas contributors have scientific evidence to disprove man-made climate change! Congrats everyone, your expertise is fascinating.

I look forward to reading their rebuttals to the 13,950 peer-reviewed climate articles.

Who in this thread has denied climate change?

RTX and Cassius

[TNF]

I tend to think that capitalism ruining the natural environment is just more proof that we need to move beyond the anarchy of market-dictated production and distribution in favor of a democratically-determined economic plan, but that's just me.