Hide yo' wife, hide yo' kids - they kidnappin' errebody!

[MalaspinaGold]

Obama writes op-ed for Haaretz.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-peace-conference/1.603324
Mostly milquetoasty platitudes, calling for peace/two-state solution.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Why?  While tragic on a personal level for the people directly affected, the sad fact is that this isn't news.

4 kidnapped and murdered Israeli teenagers wasn't news.  1 Palestinian kidnapped and murdered and it's thread worthy.  Rockets from Gaza, not news.  Israel kills a handful of bad guys in response, the Third Intifada just begun!  More rockets, not news.

Agreed.  They're not news.  They're titillating factoids that represent absolutely no change in what has been going on.

Ignoring Gully's whinging, at what point does it become news?

When something that changes the status quo happens.  The ebb and tide of rock and rocket throwing and the events surrounding that aren't news.  Once you get settlements being evacuated, or the Zionists deciding its time to ethnically cleanse the whole West Bank (rather that simply grabbing a few pieces of land here and there) then it'll be news.

[dead0man]

So you don't think we should talk about the conflict until one of those things happen?  That's a bit of a high bar ain't it?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

So you don't think we should talk about the conflict until one of those things happen?  That's a bit of a high bar ain't it?

No, I think I shouldn't talk about it.  I really don't give a rip whether or not you flap your gums over this or not.  Just don't expect me to join you in wasting breath discussing this until then.

[patrick1]

Why?  While tragic on a personal level for the people directly affected, the sad fact is that this isn't news.

4 kidnapped and murdered Israeli teenagers wasn't news.  1 Palestinian kidnapped and murdered and it's thread worthy.  Rockets from Gaza, not news.  Israel kills a handful of bad guys in response, the Third Intifada just begun!  More rockets, not news.

Agreed.  They're not news.  They're titillating factoids that represent absolutely no change in what has been going on.

Ignoring Gully's whinging, at what point does it become news?

When something that changes the status quo happens.  The ebb and tide of rock and rocket throwing and the events surrounding that aren't news.  Once you get settlements being evacuated, or the Zionists deciding its time to ethnically cleanse the whole West Bank (rather that simply grabbing a few pieces of land here and there) then it'll be news.

Devils advocate:  Was it readily apparent that the assassination of a certain Archduke would have such an impact?  The conditions are volatile enough that a small war could break out and then grow, true they are always there but all it needs is a spark. I'll quit before I mix some more metaphors and bring in other unrelated historical scenarios.

[dead0man]

So you don't think we should talk about the conflict until one of those things happen?  That's a bit of a high bar ain't it?

No, I think I shouldn't talk about it.  I really don't give a rip whether or not you flap your gums over this or not.  Just don't expect me to join you in wasting breath discussing this until then.

I didn't know somebody had asked you in here, they were clearly in the wrong.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

So you don't think we should talk about the conflict until one of those things happen?  That's a bit of a high bar ain't it?

No, I think I shouldn't talk about it.  I really don't give a rip whether or not you flap your gums over this or not.  Just don't expect me to join you in wasting breath discussing this until then.

I didn't know somebody had asked you in here, they were clearly in the wrong.

Yes they were:

The thread was quiet today (despite the story not being quite), you guys must be still waiting for the next reason to pay attention to this story.  There is still hope, maybe you'll get it tomorrow!

Too close to home boys?

Just be patient, you'll have a reason to respond to this thread again...maybe in a couple of days.  Maybe even tomorrow!

My response here wasn't about the "news" from Cisjordan, but about your pleading insistence that others consider it as important as you think it is.

Devils advocate:  Was it readily apparent that the assassination of a certain Archduke would have such an impact?  The conditions are volatile enough that a small war could break out and then grow, true they are always there but all it needs is a spark. I'll quit before I mix some more metaphors and bring in other unrelated historical scenarios.

There are always sparks, and Lord knows there is plenty of tinder in the area, but I consider obsess over every spark.  It'll either catch fire or not no matter what we do, and it's not as if anyone is doing anything to change either the amount of tinder or sparks.

[dead0man]

So you don't think we should talk about the conflict until one of those things happen?  That's a bit of a high bar ain't it?

No, I think I shouldn't talk about it.  I really don't give a rip whether or not you flap your gums over this or not.  Just don't expect me to join you in wasting breath discussing this until then.

I didn't know somebody had asked you in here, they were clearly in the wrong.

Yes they were:

The thread was quiet today (despite the story not being quite), you guys must be still waiting for the next reason to pay attention to this story.  There is still hope, maybe you'll get it tomorrow!

Too close to home boys?

Just be patient, you'll have a reason to respond to this thread again...maybe in a couple of days.  Maybe even tomorrow!

My response here wasn't about the "news" from Cisjordan, but about your pleading insistence that others consider it as important as you think it is.

Wow....k....uhhhh, I hope you feel better.....meanwhile

Hamas tries to attack coastal city with hilarious results

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Hundreds more rockets, Iron Dome seems to be doing a great job keeping them away from civilians.  Good for them (and us and the West at large as we share this technology).


The IDF has been a little restrained up until now, but if the rockets keep coming, the gloves are ready to be taken off.  40k reservists called up today.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Wow....k....uhhhh, I hope you feel better...

Thanks, tho how did you know I'd been suffering from a summer cold?  Those are always the worst, and I even ran a bit of a temperature for a few days, but I'm over it now.  Hopefully your own feverish spell will end soon.

[dead0man]

ugggg....Summer colds suck

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

As awful and indiscriminate as the Hamas attacks are, the reaction by the Israeli government has been far worse and has only further shown that the colonists show less and less regard for the basic human rights of any Arab in what they consider their rightful land. And the Western media cheers them on while they bludgeon children to death in "self-defense", of course.

[dead0man]

subtle

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

As awful and indiscriminate as the Hamas attacks are, the reaction by the conniving Israeli government has been far worse and has only further shown that the colonists show less and less regard for the basic human rights of any Arab in what they consider their rightful land--the final goal being lebensraum stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates. And the Western media cheers them on while they bludgeon children to death in "self-defense", of course.

dead0man, I apologize for my earlier comments in this thread on the off chance that they may have in any way, shape, or form led to this mass of sagery appearing here.  I don't think they did, but even so, I apologize.

[swl]

Already 41 deaths, including many children in return for 3 deaths...

I know that the situation is extremely complex, but I can't help but feel disgusted.

[dead0man]

So you'd rather it be proportional?

[swl]

I'd rather it not to happen at all...

[Hnv1]

The Egyptian and the Americans are sharing the blame for this madness continuation. The lethargic effort to negotiate to an already known ceasefire is equally at their doorstep.

[dead0man]

The Egyptian and the Americans are sharing the blame for this madness continuation. The lethargic effort to negotiate to an already known ceasefire is equally at their doorstep.

I thought I had read that Egypt was trying to talk with Hamas, but Hamas left the table to shoot more rockets.  Hamas is in dire straights, they've lost a LOT of funding in the last couple of years and it's thought that this is just a really loud cry for help.

I'd rather it not to happen at all...

Sure, sure, me too...but when a country is attacked, especially in the barbaric ways this country has been attacked they can't sit on their hands or send an angry letter.

So you'd rather it be proportional?

You keep raising proportionality as if it were a preposterous irrelevancy - but disproportionate  military action is a crime of war, and has been for a very long time.

The proportional response in this case would be to murder 3 innocent teenagers and then launch hundreds of rockets randomly at civilians, and no sane people would be cool with that.  Going after the launchers, the stock piles, command and control centers and the people running the show seems like a much saner option to me.  If those things are located with little regard for the people and things around them, well it sucks, but it still needs to be done and the fault shouldn't lay at the feet of the people defending themselves.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Maybe there wouldn't be as many bottle rockets (which thus far have done basically no damage, thankfully) if the colony would stop spreading. There's a reason Hamas was elected.

[dead0man]

They've done little damage thanks to the Iron Dome and Israelis being good at hiding because they get so much practice.  I do agree that new settlements are a bad idea and many/most of the ones in place now should be removed if that's what would bring peace.

It wouldn't, which is why they'll stay.

[Hnv1]

The Egyptian and the Americans are sharing the blame for this madness continuation. The lethargic effort to negotiate to an already known ceasefire is equally at their doorstep.

I thought I had read that Egypt was trying to talk with Hamas, but Hamas left the table to shoot more rockets.  Hamas is in dire straights, they've lost a LOT of funding in the last couple of years and it's thought that this is just a really loud cry for help.

I'd rather it not to happen at all...

Sure, sure, me too...but when a country is attacked, especially in the barbaric ways this country has been attacked they can't sit on their hands or send an angry letter.

So you'd rather it be proportional?

You keep raising proportionality as if it were a preposterous irrelevancy - but disproportionate  military action is a crime of war, and has been for a very long time.

The proportional response in this case would be to murder 3 innocent teenagers and then launch hundreds of rockets randomly at civilians, and no sane people would be cool with that.  Going after the launchers, the stock piles, command and control centers and the people running the show seems like a much saner option to me.  If those things are located with little regard for the people and things around them, well it sucks, but it still needs to be done and the fault shouldn't lay at the feet of the people defending themselves.

So far the Egyptians are dragging leg to see Hamas suffer a bit, whilst there's also a schism between the political branch and the military branch of Hamas. The former seem to want a ceasefire sooner than later and to return to building a unity government the later seemed mindset for a short round. With no strong negotiation (Sissy\Obama) to try forcing an end and with escalating air strikes and longer ranged rockets (futile and inaccurate as they may be) this little adventure could see a ground move that no wants but no one is trying to stop.

[free my dawg]

Over the last couple months especially (though it's existed as a problem for some time), I've gained something of a reputation as an overly bitter troll of the far-left variety (as well as general attention whoring). I've cognitively understood that I'm probably not bringing much positive contribution to the forum, though by virtue of having a rather dull life outside Atlas (and more and more in Atlas Tongue) and having been in a chronically poor mood for a while now (though I've felt a bit better lately), I haven't really made an effort to improve myself as a poster.

So I'm sorry to those I've needlessly gone after or tried to get a rise out of, and to the forum in general for being something of a pretentious attention whore. Will I be fine after this? Of course not, and I still have rather radical political views (though that doesn't excuse me being a poor man's opebo about them). But hopefully with some encouragement I can improve myself and reestablish myself as a valued and veteran contributor to the US Election Atlas Forum. Smiley

Though I expect it to be thoroughly parodied and referenced until well after its expiration date like the infamous apology thread, I feel I should announce something. I'd make a big effortpost about this, but I'm rather tired and have work to do so I'll condense it to the important parts:

• Yes, I see how my "sage" is insufferable to some. To a large extent that was the point of it, though I've long passed the point where I'm getting tired of and annoyed by my own forum persona.
• A lowdown on my actual views: Very left-wing, though rather more nuanced than I let on. I mostly dumbed them down in a misguided effort to combat/make fun of the dominant political perspective on this forum (progressive liberalism) which I'm finding more and more annoying.
• I won't be posting (or more likely, maybe posting once every couple days) for a while, though I fully expect to return in full force at some point. Hopefully my affected forum schtick will have mostly died by that point, though given past attempts at "reforming" I shouldn't make any absolute promises. I will most definitely continue to lurk on the forum and if my hiatus lasts long enough will probably be a zombie voter in Atlasia (and since it's barely connected to Atlas I'll probably stay in that game Lumine's doing).

I'm fully back a bit earlier than I sort of expected myself, though the few days mostly off have been a bit refreshing and gave an exercise in self-control. I know I've reneged on my "promises" before but I hope I can finally kill off the worst excesses of Sage and get on better terms with some of my old forum friends who have been understandably put off by my affected Marxist propaganda.

If you've had enough of my "sage", rejoice that I'll be pushing most of it into here. I have literally nothing up so far, but I'm currently drafting my first post on the roots of Russia's swing to the right and another critical of Obama's domestic policy. This will be an exercise in both better articulating my views and trying to avoid my flaw of making sweeping generalizations without bothering to back them up.

I've already decided to (at least for now) focus on international affairs from my political perspective, so what should I tackle? For the record, I've already decided what the topics would be for all of these (protests/inconsistent Western policy in the ME as a whole, civil war/French intervention, peace talks/protests/status of the left in the country, sabre-rattling, and deconstruction of the Nordic Model, respectively). Currently leaning towards Bahrain but could be swayed easily.

[swl]

It wouldn't, which is why they'll stay.

I disagree. I think it's obvious that removing the newest settlements and ending the blockade of Gaza would drastically reduce the violence. I don't even think that removing settlements is necessary for now: currently most of the violence comes from Gaza and people there are obviously concerned with their own situation before anything else. So step 1: recognize the new Fatah+Hamas government, step 2: end the blockade of Gaza. Of course it will not totally end violence since there are many other issues to resolve, and there are extremists on both sides.

Also since I consider Israel to be the most educated, the most advanced and the strongest of the two parties, I consider it their duty to make the first move if they really want peace. They gave it a try in 2005 and should continue now.

 

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

stuff

I don't see anything wrong with what I'm saying here.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The Egyptian and the Americans are sharing the blame for this madness continuation. The lethargic effort to negotiate to an already known ceasefire is equally at their doorstep.

Why on earth is it anybody's fault but that of the Israelis and of Hamas that y'all are fighting?  Frankly, the sooner everybody directly involved realizes that a lasting peace can only come from within and not from without, the sooner that a lasting peace might be able to happen.  Bribing and/or cajoling people into doing what they already know they need to do doesn't solve the problem, it only masks the symptoms.