So Michael's grandparents visited us in Scotland last week...

[afleitch]

So for the whole of last week, Michael’s grandparents visited Scotland. We did Glasgow, toured Edinburgh and Stirling Castle, paid for a wonderful bus tour all the way through the Highlands, a boat trip on Loch Ness and two days in London.

And nothing.

What I am about to tell you is not fabricated for dramatic effect. It actually happened;

I have never met people like them, people who leave me absolutely stumped for words or actually making me struggle to be decent. I used to think being nice was easier than being nasty because manipulative nastiness cost more time, thought and effort. But I really struggled to be nice to people for the first time in a long time. Not a single sentence that had anything to do with either me or Michael that wasn’t about the holiday was uttered. Not one thank you. No talk about us as a couple. I was essentially a handy tour guide that seemed to share Michael’s bed. And when we did visit things, there was a pained interest in everything we saw. Every expenditure was scrutinised. Despite the fact we dug into our pockets for them if they had to pay for one drink, one ticket or one snack for either of us it was a major hassle.

The grandfather (who is actually not biological but his second marriage) was very keen to tell us that he has spent $600 on a crucifix he proceeded to wear outside his shirt (which he doesn’t do at home). We got some handy advice to ‘follow the word of god’ followed by him picking up a free bible from a pastor in London and preceding to read it at every rest stop. His nana’s family bible was on our dining room table until such times as we could no longer show any respect for it, despite not holding it to any great standing and asked it to be removed. The issue of religion was raised by him repeatedly. Any attempts to have a civil discussion were closed down and Michael offering proof that Mormonism (in a conversation about Mittens) held a specific set of beliefs contrary to mainstream Christianity resulted in him being shouted at in a restaurant resulting in us both having to leave. His nana at least admitted that she didn’t like President Obama because he was a ‘n-gger’, but that did not stop her from impersonating a British Asian family on a train and then making fun of how Chinese people speak in London. Protestations that there were no ‘First Amendment’ rights had little effect. Upon showing them pictures of my family and our civil partnership, the proceeded to say ’oh you guys were at a wedding?’ The response ‘yes ours’ was met with the photos being put down, despite the fact that both of them have known for two years now of that particular situation.

I am very, very glad that they are gone. I never wish to see them again.  Sometimes people are just a waste of time and there’s nothing much you can do to change that.

[Hatman 🍁]

Why did you even go through the ordeal? After 10 minutes of that, I would've said "you're on your own" and gone home.

There's no need to tolerate intolerance.

[memphis]

They came all the way from America to act like that? Seems like a lot of trouble. If they were that uncomfortable, why make the trip?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

How old are they exactly?

[Storebought]

They came all the way from America to act like that? Seems like a lot of trouble. If they were that uncomfortable, why make the trip[\b]?

An all expenses paid trip to Scotland would encourage the venal endure any amount of "bad" company.

Did Michael give any indication that his relatives were in fact bigoted assholes? Why would he inflict them on you otherwise?

[afleitch]

They came all the way from America to act like that? Seems like a lot of trouble. If they were that uncomfortable, why make the trip[\b]?

An all expenses paid trip to Scotland would encourage the venal endure any amount of "bad" company.

Did Michael give any indication that his relatives were in fact bigoted assholes? Why would he inflict them on you otherwise?

That was it I think. He knew what they could be like but thought perhaps in the three years since he left he'd been hearing messages getting filtered wrongly. So we made an effort and thought whatever ice there was would perhaps break.

They are 72 and 64. My parents are 61 and 60 respectively.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

They are 72 and 64. My parents are 61 and 60 respectively.

Given the closeness in age, perhaps your parents can give you a perspective to see things from.....or they might just agree that his grandparents are ***********

But I recall you saying your father, especially, is a kind accepting man, which means he probably understands how those on the otherside of the tracks view things.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yup. it sounds like everyone involved was guilty of wishful thinking that proved false. Sounds like a real shame on many levels, and not just the familial but also because no doubt the experience further soured you on religion. (If that is possible.) I do wonder why the issue of how Mormonism compares with mainstream Christianity came up.  It seems an odd choice of topic under the circumstances, even if his grandparents be Mormons.

[dead0man]

Wow...most intolerant people aren't that....<ahem>...."out" with their bigotry.

[afleitch]

Yup. it sounds like everyone involved was guilty of wishful thinking that proved false. Sounds like a real shame on many levels, and not just the familial but also because no doubt the experience further soured you on religion. (If that is possible.) I do wonder why the issue of how Mormonism compares with mainstream Christianity came up.  It seems an odd choice of topic under the circumstances, even if his grandparents be Mormons.

Oh it was a straightforward discussion. Gus says Obama isn't a Christian and might be Muslim (pedant in me refrains from mentioning that privately, Obama may not be religious at all). Says Romney is Christian. Michael says that at least publically Obama is and in some people's eyes Romney isn't a Christian because of Mormon beliefs x and y. Cue rage issues about being informed of a different viewpoint.

I'd given up days before!

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Sounds cringeworthy. Why on earth did they bother visiting if they were just going to act like that? I understand they're family, but honestly..

And who cares what religious beliefs our politicians hold? We shouldn't look up to them for spiritual or moral guidance - they're just politicians.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

(pedant in me refrains from mentioning that privately, Obama may not be religious at all)

Obama was UCC before the Wright fiasco, not UU.

[memphis]

Wow...most intolerant people aren't that....<ahem>...."out" with their bigotry.

You'd be amazed how many people are.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I don't think anyone should be accused of "wishful thinking." That phrase implies that there was just an honest misunderstanding and that the two groups were merely incompatible. The truth is, the grandparents are a pair of bigoted assholes who came no where close to deserving such good hospitality. I would've snapped right away.

My aunt has recently taken to posting garbage on Facebook about how freedom of religion only counts for Christians. Or how Muslims shouldn't be allowed to wear burqas in public. Or how she's proud that she "doesn't believe" in homosexuality. Well, I've started causing sh**t and calling her out on it. It would almost be funny how poorly she defends herself if it wasn't such a sad reflection on the bigotry of some people in the West.

[retromike22]

Don't worry, most people who don't like gays tend to be older, and they will soon all be dead. And people who are tolerant of gays will replace them.

[Joe Republic]

Don't worry, most people who don't like gays tend to be older, and they will soon all be dead. And people who are tolerant of gays will replace them.

^  Truth.  It's just sad that these people are also family.  Religion blinds so many people to what's really important.

I'm sorry you wasted your time with these f[Inks]tards, Andrew.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'm sorry you went through this, Andrew. That behavior is inexcusable. And although I don't think there's much use speculating about the extent to which they'd still be like this if they were less religious, I'm afraid I cannot but agree that it isn't exactly helping.

[afleitch]

I'm sorry you went through this, Andrew. That behavior is inexcusable. And although I don't think there's much use speculating about the extent to which they'd still be like this if they were less religious, I'm afraid I cannot but agree that it isn't exactly helping.

The problem was that they have gotten more religious, so this behaviour is what I think they expect of being 'more Christian'. That will always be a problem because the anti-gay message still carries capital. I can't abide 'Brand USA' Christianity (and shudder at it's exportation across the world forcing alien concerns over gays to the top of their agendas) for that reason. I don't mind because I'm used to it. Michael came out later in life and so the stark difference he faces is more biting. It also happened when he returned home in January.

I think without resorting to religion in recent years they probably would have still been assholes, if not to us then still to other people. And that's no improvement.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I must say, I admire your self-control, Andrew. If I were in your place, I'd literally explode.

I'm sorry you had to go through such an unpleasant situation. Fortunately, they are gone and you and your husband don't have to stand their inexcusable behavior any moment longer.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I think without resorting to religion in recent years they probably would have still been assholes, if not to us then still to other people. And that's no improvement.

That's kind of what I was getting at. Even so I think it's a horrible shame that their own grandson and his husband had to endure this kind of shabby treatment.