Sweet Sixteen Act of 2014 (Law'd)

[windjammer]

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Sponsor: Senator TNF

[sentinel]

the legal age of majority?

Am I missing something or aren't "non-minors" just referred to as adults, or "those over sixteen" in this case.

[TNF]

The age of majority is a term used to describe the age at which someone is considered an adult in society and all applicable privileges that come with adulthood are applied to that person.

[windjammer]

Senator TNF, I have 2 questions:
1) Why do you think the age of the majority should be lowered?
2) And why 16?? (and not 14,12,17,...)

[TNF]

1) Because 16 year olds work. Taxing 16 year olds without allowing them representation in government (by giving them the vote) is taxation without representation, something we fought a war over. Beyond that, 16 is a reasonable age for anyone to start being and independent member of society. We do too much babying and expect people to live at home and be dependent upon their parents for far too long.

2) Again, because 16 year olds are legally able to work. In Atlasia, we outlawed the labor of persons under 16 with the Fair Labor Standards Act of 2013, which is why I don't advocate reducing the age of majority below it. If you're old enough to work, you should be old enough to enjoy all the rights and privileges (and duties) that come with being an adult.

[windjammer]

Senator TNF,
If I have understood correctly, you advocation for "taxation= representation". So a 10 years old boy should have the right to vote as well if he buys candies? I mean, he would have to pay the estate tax .

And, do you really believe 16 year old people are independent? I know Kentucky isn't Europe. But in Europe, when you're 16, you still live with your parents. Your parents basically pay for your food, your study,... And I don't think that's really different in the USA. And if that's the case, I would be surprised .

[TNF]

Taxing someone's labor without allowing them to be represented is what is at issue here. A 10 year old cannot legally work, so the point is moot. The 10 year old in question does not, and should not provide for himself or herself. Beyond that, I doubt most 10 year olds are buying things themselves directly; most of the money they theoretically have access to comes directly from a parent or grandparent.

I never said I believed they were independent, I said that they should be independent by 16.

[windjammer]

Even if they should be independent, they're not.

Teenagers and young adults are more and more dependent from their parent with studies that are always longer. The fact that you want to answer to that by allowing more and more people to vote is an interesting perspective.

[DemPGH]

If you're old enough to pay taxes, you're old enough to enjoy the other privileges, pains, and general annoyances of adulthood. I support this.

[windjammer]

Yep, that's why this is an interesting bill, regardless if I support that or not.

Even if that's not probably the intent of TNF to do that, I see this bill as an answer to the constant infantilisation of young people of the modern society (the fact that young people are more and more dependent from their parents). You fight against that by giving them responsibility in other areas (like voting rights,...)

[Lumine]

It's interesting from several points of view, but I can't say I'm willing to have 16 years old as adults in the complete sense of the word. Many people with 18 are hardly ready to become adults (and I'm a great example of that at the age of 19), and trying to speed the process is bound to have some effects that I believe would be negative (from the psychological point of view, for example).

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

We already have the vote for those 13 and older do we not?

The Senate has passed a number of restrictions and protections that include those in the 16-17 yr age, so we will need to see how this affects those.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Call me a reactionary, but I don't think high schoolers are ready to be living on their own and such.

[Adam Griffin]

Call me a reactionary, but I don't think high schoolers are ready to be living on their own and such.

I doubt they seriously will be just because of the passage of this legislation, but it does raise an interesting point: since individuals can work at 16 but are not considered adults until they are 18, are we condoning child labor? I certainly hope nobody in this chamber supports child labor.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Why do there have to be just two stages.

There is a line in the sand, on this side you are a child on the other you are an adult?

Is there not an intermediate space?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Twenty six hours?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Oh come on, for heaven's sake is no one going to answer my question.

[TNF]

I don't think that we should legislate into existence another class of persons without full rights, personally.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't think that we should legislate into existence another class of persons without full rights, personally.

Who said anything about legislating into existance? Does it not already naturally exist a state where people are older then children but too immature to be considered adults?

[TNF]

I don't think that we should legislate into existence another class of persons without full rights, personally.

Who said anything about legislating into existance? Does it not already naturally exist a state where people are older then children but too immature to be considered adults?

No, it's a concept that has kind of been created since the 1950s.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't think that we should legislate into existence another class of persons without full rights, personally.

Who said anything about legislating into existance? Does it not already naturally exist a state where people are older then children but too immature to be considered adults?

No, it's a concept that has kind of been created since the 1950s.

Would you care to detail how that happened?

Surely, there was some societal or culturally basis for it before hand even if it was the imposition of select few, it must have been demonstrated in some sect of the population.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I kind of expected a history lesson. Not getting it has made me sad. I would like to know how and why such legislative action as that mentioned by the sponsor came to be and why?

This has sat for five days now with no action

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I motion for a final vote as requested by the Vice President.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If I recall correctly from my Baroque era Franco-Spanish history, Philip, Duke of Anjou was just 16 when he was willed the throne of Spain in 1700/1701.

I really don't know, I would like to have some more answers before I vote.

[windjammer]

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A final vote is now open,
Please senators, vote AYE, NAY or Abstain.