Public Fuel and Power Act of 2014 (Final vote)
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  Public Fuel and Power Act of 2014 (Final vote)
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Author Topic: Public Fuel and Power Act of 2014 (Final vote)  (Read 16291 times)
windjammer
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« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2014, 07:57:55 AM »

Senators, you have 24 hours to object to Senator TNF's amendment.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2014, 09:04:36 PM »

Why should we nationalize our energy industry? Why such animus towards private ownership?

My friends in the Labor Party and I think that energy should be produced and use for and by the people instead of corporations that seek only profit.

Corporations are people. Wink
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windjammer
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« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2014, 08:22:07 AM »
« Edited: July 19, 2014, 08:23:52 AM by VP windjammer »

Without any objection,
Senator TNF's amendment has been adopted.
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TNF
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« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2014, 08:28:51 AM »

I'm kind of leery about a mandate on the price, personally. I think it would be better to phrase Section 2 as something that would mandate a ceiling on the amount of money that could be collected at a profit. We don't want to be building up huge profits through public power, but we do want to be bringing in a very small amount of a surplus so that we can invest in and expand production of renewable energy.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2014, 09:07:23 AM »

I don't really get how the expenditure/price formula is supposed to work.  How would the AEA be able to produce an accurate estimate of the amount of joules to be consumed in a given year? What does it mean that the expenditure would be pegged to 7% of GNP and why is that an appropriate figure? How does the formula work to determine an appropriate price?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2014, 11:07:36 AM »

As a slightly connected matter, what happens of the cost of production/extraction of the raw materials or fuel for power generation exceeds the ability of the 7% to cover it? What means is that for production/material costs to be kept down and how easily can one form be switched to another to avoid a price spike. History is full of such spikes in price and such needs to be considered.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2014, 11:23:20 AM »

It is somewhat discomforting to return from a three day absence to find you are the last person to have posted on not one but multiple bills. Tongue
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2014, 03:27:45 PM »

Why should we nationalize our energy industry? Why such animus towards private ownership?

My friends in the Labor Party and I think that energy should be produced and use for and by the people instead of corporations that seek only profit.

What is the problem with corporations seeking profit? Isn't that their prime bottom line. If they make the big profits it naturally will trickle down into funding programs that will improve the lives of all Atlasians besides their employees? Didn't folks like the Rockefeller family do that? 
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2014, 06:13:03 AM »

How much does clause 1 cost?
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TNF
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« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2014, 08:41:26 AM »

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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2014, 12:29:41 AM »

What incentive does the AEA or any of its sub-units have to increase efficiency or otherwise reduce production costs?
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TNF
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« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2014, 10:18:31 AM »

What incentive does the AEA or any of its sub-units have to increase efficiency or otherwise reduce production costs?

Well, there's the fact that it's a democratically governed structure, and the people running it have an obvious interest in making costs as low as possible for themselves.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2014, 11:18:53 AM »

Don't forget to process the amendment Windjammer. Smiley

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2014, 11:20:17 AM »


And also what does the 2030 100% renewable deadline look like in terms of a percentage increase of energy costs and how much of that can be reasonably defrayed by removing profits?
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2014, 08:34:20 PM »

What incentive does the AEA or any of its sub-units have to increase efficiency or otherwise reduce production costs?

Well, there's the fact that it's a democratically governed structure, and the people running it have an obvious interest in making costs as low as possible for themselves.
The price is set at the national level, but the local and municipal sub-units are governed by representatives of local people and representatives of workers employed by that sub-unit. Local representatives have an incentive to hire as many people as possible, even if they aren't necessary, in order to get votes and benefit their local area. They have little disincentive to engage in such activity because the costs incurred by one sub-unit will have a minimal effect on the national price of energy. However, when many sub-units engage in such activity, the costs add up and energy becomes more expensive. It's kind of a tragedy of the commons situation where each sub-unit acting in the interest of its local area will increase the national cost of energy and make everyone worse off.

Similarly, worker representatives have an incentive for push for salary and pension increases regardless of the cost. Each individual sub-unit won't have a huge impact on costs, but it adds up at the national level. Furthermore, even national worker representatives have an incentive to increase salaries and pensions regardless of the effect on production costs, because AEA employees will still be marginally better off if their salaries are increased generously and the cost of energy rises.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2014, 08:24:47 AM »

So where are we with this?
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TNF
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« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2014, 09:21:52 AM »

I don't see us getting anywhere else on this, so I'm prepared for a final vote if our sponsor is.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2014, 10:45:40 AM »

I like this (the amended version, that is), FTR. It's always irked me that companies make gi-normous profits on things that are essential to daily living considering that this is the 21st century. This is a big, bold bill that I will support! I'm not a big fan of nationalizing everything, but in this instance I think public (regional or otherwise) ownership can streamline energy and keep it affordable. And, almost anything that seeks to end a private, for-mega-profit monopoly will have my support.

I will have further comment if it strikes me.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2014, 12:07:43 PM »

I would like to see at least some response to Deus' last post as I am concerned about the issues that he has raised amongst others.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2014, 09:45:56 PM »

I like this (the amended version, that is), FTR. It's always irked me that companies make gi-normous profits on things that are essential to daily living considering that this is the 21st century. This is a big, bold bill that I will support! I'm not a big fan of nationalizing everything, but in this instance I think public (regional or otherwise) ownership can streamline energy and keep it affordable. And, almost anything that seeks to end a private, for-mega-profit monopoly will have my support.

I will have further comment if it strikes me.
Which energy company possesses a monopoly? Any evidence that energy profits are higher compared to other sectors?

I'd still like an answer to the concerns I raised (from anyone who supports this bill), though I doubt I'll get any.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2014, 07:07:51 PM »

I'm so sorry - was the last amendment ever adopted out of my inactivity? If not, amendment is friendly.
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TNF
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« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2014, 08:38:10 AM »

I'm so sorry - was the last amendment ever adopted out of my inactivity? If not, amendment is friendly.

I assume it was, given that no one objected in the 24 hour period after I proposed it.
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windjammer
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« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2014, 10:17:23 AM »

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Oh ***, I forgot this amendment.
Senator Griffin, are you friendly or hostile to Senator TNF's amendment?
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TNF
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« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2014, 10:53:11 AM »

He said it was friendly two posts above yours.
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windjammer
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« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2014, 10:54:49 AM »

He said it was friendly two posts above yours.
Oh thank you Senator TNF,
Senators, you have 24 hours to object.
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