Ask Oldiesfreak

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I know I tried this once before and failed, but I thought I would try it again with the success of JCL's thread (along with the new ones by DC and afleitch).  And since I'm the lone SDA here (to my knowledge), I thought it would only be appropriate since so many people have questions about the church.  Feel free to ask me anything about religion, whether it's about Adventism or my personal views.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No.

[DC Al Fine]

What's a typical SDA service like?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

What's a typical SDA service like?

It probably depends on which SDA church you're going to.  Most of the rural churches (like mine) are small and don't have much money, so they're not too fancy.  Different churches hold services at different times; my church has Sabbath school at 10AM; this is usually preceded by a song service that begins at 9:20 or 9:30 and a story usually related to Adventist mission work.  Sabbath school lasts for about an hour, and then at 11AM, we have our main service, which usually lasts about an hour and a half; the preaching alone usually taking up at least half of that time.  We then have a vegetarian meal (except for the first week of the month, which was recently axed to encourage people to invite other over for a meal.) 

As for the bigger churches, they usually have more money and members, so they often have choirs, multiple pastors, etc.  This is especially common for churches at Adventist colleges/universities (like Andrews and Loma Linda.)  Many of these churches are comfortable with contemporary Christian music, while the more conservative churches (as well as the small rural ones) are very much against CCM. 

What it ultimately boils down to is this: Adventism, like most Christian movements/denominations, is not coherent on many issues, and the style of service is a good example of this.

No.

It's OK.  You don't have to ask me anything if you don't want.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Is the SDAC a unified body, or are individual congregations free to worship however they please and disagree on certain doctrines or wedge issues?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Is the SDAC a unified body, or are individual congregations free to worship however they please and disagree on certain doctrines or wedge issues?

The Adventist church governance is more Presbyterian in nature.  The individual churches get to govern themselves regarding finances, leaders, etc. (Full disclosure: I attended a joint church business/board meeting this week).  The churches elect elders, deacons/deaconesses, clerks, treasurers, and other such positions from within the membership, but I understand that the pastors are chosen by one of the higher levels of church government.  As for the specific doctrines, I think the only thing the churches are obligated to follow is the 28 Fundamental Beliefs as expressed by the General Conference.  Likewise, candidates for baptism are expected to affirm these beliefs in order to be baptized into an SDA church.  Most progressive Adventists (like myself) have some disagreements with these beliefs, as well as other traditional SDA doctrines that aren't part of the official beliefs.  As for "wedge issues," I don't know exactly what you mean, but in many churches, those who express dissent even with teaching that aren't official (the Mark of the Beast/Whore of Babylon, morality of consuming of pork, etc.) are looked on with strong suspicion by conservatives.

I'll admit that my experiences in SDA churches are pretty limited outside my own, but this is what I have noticed about it.

[DC Al Fine]

What's a typical SDA service like?

It probably depends on which SDA church you're going to.  Most of the rural churches (like mine) are small and don't have much money, so they're not too fancy.  Different churches hold services at different times; my church has Sabbath school at 10AM; this is usually preceded by a song service that begins at 9:20 or 9:30 and a story usually related to Adventist mission work.  Sabbath school lasts for about an hour, and then at 11AM, we have our main service, which usually lasts about an hour and a half; the preaching alone usually taking up at least half of that time.  We then have a vegetarian meal (except for the first week of the month, which was recently axed to encourage people to invite other over for a meal.) 

As for the bigger churches, they usually have more money and members, so they often have choirs, multiple pastors, etc.  This is especially common for churches at Adventist colleges/universities (like Andrews and Loma Linda.)  Many of these churches are comfortable with contemporary Christian music, while the more conservative churches (as well as the small rural ones) are very much against CCM. 

What it ultimately boils down to is this: Adventism, like most Christian movements/denominations, is not coherent on many issues, and the style of service is a good example of this.

I see. How about your congregation? What's a typical service order like?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

What's a typical SDA service like?

It probably depends on which SDA church you're going to.  Most of the rural churches (like mine) are small and don't have much money, so they're not too fancy.  Different churches hold services at different times; my church has Sabbath school at 10AM; this is usually preceded by a song service that begins at 9:20 or 9:30 and a story usually related to Adventist mission work.  Sabbath school lasts for about an hour, and then at 11AM, we have our main service, which usually lasts about an hour and a half; the preaching alone usually taking up at least half of that time.  We then have a vegetarian meal (except for the first week of the month, which was recently axed to encourage people to invite other over for a meal.) 

As for the bigger churches, they usually have more money and members, so they often have choirs, multiple pastors, etc.  This is especially common for churches at Adventist colleges/universities (like Andrews and Loma Linda.)  Many of these churches are comfortable with contemporary Christian music, while the more conservative churches (as well as the small rural ones) are very much against CCM. 

What it ultimately boils down to is this: Adventism, like most Christian movements/denominations, is not coherent on many issues, and the style of service is a good example of this.

I see. How about your congregation? What's a typical service order like?

What do you mean?

[TJ in Oregon]

What's a typical SDA service like?

It probably depends on which SDA church you're going to.  Most of the rural churches (like mine) are small and don't have much money, so they're not too fancy.  Different churches hold services at different times; my church has Sabbath school at 10AM; this is usually preceded by a song service that begins at 9:20 or 9:30 and a story usually related to Adventist mission work.  Sabbath school lasts for about an hour, and then at 11AM, we have our main service, which usually lasts about an hour and a half; the preaching alone usually taking up at least half of that time.  We then have a vegetarian meal (except for the first week of the month, which was recently axed to encourage people to invite other over for a meal.) 

As for the bigger churches, they usually have more money and members, so they often have choirs, multiple pastors, etc.  This is especially common for churches at Adventist colleges/universities (like Andrews and Loma Linda.)  Many of these churches are comfortable with contemporary Christian music, while the more conservative churches (as well as the small rural ones) are very much against CCM. 

What it ultimately boils down to is this: Adventism, like most Christian movements/denominations, is not coherent on many issues, and the style of service is a good example of this.

I see. How about your congregation? What's a typical service order like?

What do you mean?

I think he means what is the structure of a service like? ie. Does it start with an opening hymn, processions, etc.? What happens after that? When does the sermon occur? Basically, what happens during the service?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

It usually starts with a couple songs, followed by an opening song.  We used to open with the doxology and an opening song, but our current pastor changed that (and I kinda miss it.)  We then say a prayer, go through announcements, and have an offering.  After that, we open the floor for "praise and prayer," where we can tell the congregation how God is working in our lives and submit prayer requests, and the congregation is led in prayer.  Then we have a story for the kids (with some sort of moral/spiritual theme).  After this, we have a sermon that usually lasts 45 minutes to an hour, and then we have a closing prayer and song.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I put this one up in DC's so I'm gonna shoot. What are your thoughts on "The Gifts" (Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12-14) are you cessationist or continualist?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I have been in a committed psycho-sexual entanglement with a ceramic chicken for several weeks. I am thinking of breaking it off. Any suggestions? I don’t want to break it’s heart.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Have you looked at black voting patterns between whenever they officially could and shortly after they really could?

[H. Ross Peron]

Are you a young earther, old earther, or theistic evolutionist?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Have you looked at black voting patterns between whenever they officially could and shortly after they really could?

What?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Are you a virgin and, if so, what are you reasons to maintain that pitiful state of affairs?

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Are you a virgin and, if so, what are you reasons to maintain that pitiful state of affairs?

How is that a pitiful state of affairs Kal?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Are you a virgin and, if so, what are you reasons to maintain that pitiful state of affairs?

How is that a pitiful state of affairs Kal?

Just take a good look around the forum and you'll get your answer.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I put this one up in DC's so I'm gonna shoot. What are your thoughts on "The Gifts" (Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12-14) are you cessationist or continualist?

The church's official position is continualist (as evidenced by numbers 17 and 18 in the Fundamental Beliefs), but I take more of a moderate view.  While I certainly lean more toward continualism (why would the Apostolic/spiritual gifts cease with the Apostles?), I don't generally buy into the claims of miracles that many Pentecostal denominations make.  I also believe that they have changed over the centuries.  While I don't believe that most Christians today heal the sick, cast out demons, or raise the dead in the same manner as Jesus and the Apostles, I do believe that we use the gifts by our words and deeds.  This would apply to prophecy: while I don't believe that prophets exist today like the type seen in Bible times, various people have served as prophets throughout the Christian era by their teaching.  I don't consider Ellen White to be a prophet in the same sense as the biblical prophets, but she was a prophet in the sense that she was a good teacher who showed her faith by her life and teaching.  The same would apply to Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, Billy Graham, Martin Luther King, Rick Warren, Mother Teresa, St. Francis of Assisi, Pope John Paul, etc.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Are you a virgin and, if so, what are you reasons to maintain that pitiful state of affairs?

Simple.  Read Exodus 20:14.  I've been able to get along without sex for 21 years, and if I can wait that long, then there's no reason I can't wait until I'm married.

I have been in a committed psycho-sexual entanglement with a ceramic chicken for several weeks. I am thinking of breaking it off. Any suggestions? I don’t want to break it’s heart.

If you think you need to, then go ahead.  But honestly, this is completely unrelated to the thread.  Let me make one thing very clear: this thread is for religion and philosophy questions only.  If you want to ask me questions about other things, then you can do that in another thread.

Are you a young earther, old earther, or theistic evolutionist?

I don't really take a position either way on the age of the Earth because I believe it's completely irrelevant to the biblical account of creation.  I trust that God created the world and the universe in the exact amount of time He knew was best, whether that was six literal 24-hour days or a longer period of time.  "He has made everything beautiful in its time." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

That being said, I find it very hypocritical of many conservative SDAs to insist on young Earth creationism and a literal six-day creation.  Adventists have traditionally upheld an interpretation of prophecy that assigns a year for each "day" (which I feel lacks strong Scriptural support, but that's for another time.)  But when it comes to interpreting the first two chapters of Genesis, it has to be a literal reading.  They claim that a literal interpretation of Genesis is the only way to prove the truth of a seventh-day Sabbath.  But isn't it enough that God rested on the seventh "day" (whether that was a literal day or not) that was symbolized by the seventh day of every week?  Likewise, we had a recent Sabbath school quarterly on creation that devoted much of its time and resources to attacking theistic evolution as impossible and creation and evolution as mutually exclusive theories.  But the Bible says nothing about what the original species looked like, their relation to modern species, etc.  While it says that man was made in God's image, I think the image that is being described is a spiritual rather than a physical one.  Like the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath, young Earth creationism and a refusal to accept theistic evolution is based purely on tradition rather than what the Bible actually says.  Plus, I believe there is strong evidence for evolution in the Bible.  In the first few chapters of Genesis, God creates all the animals, including humans, as vegetarians.  However, we know that many species that are living now are meant to eat meat.  Therefore, some sort of change would have had to occur after Adam and Eve fell into sin that led to this. 

So I guess my views lean mostly toward theistic evolution.  To me, evolution is further proof of God as Creator, and I imagine He must find it incredibly insulting to suggest that He wouldn't have the wisdom and foresight to design His creation for adaptation.

"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies declare the work of His hands." (Psalm 19:1)

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Are you a virgin and, if so, what are you reasons to maintain that pitiful state of affairs?

Simple.  Read Exodus 20:14.  I've been able to get along without sex for 21 years

Stop using the Bible to cover up your failure as a man.

[Napoleon]

Are you a virgin and, if so, what are you reasons to maintain that pitiful state of affairs?

Simple.  Read Exodus 20:14.  I've been able to get along without sex for 21 years

Stop using the Bible to cover up your failure as a man.

But, but Bushie does it!

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I put this one up in DC's so I'm gonna shoot. What are your thoughts on "The Gifts" (Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12-14) are you cessationist or continualist?

The church's official position is continualist (as evidenced by numbers 17 and 18 in the Fundamental Beliefs), but I take more of a moderate view.  While I certainly lean more toward continualism (why would the Apostolic/spiritual gifts cease with the Apostles?), I don't generally buy into the claims of miracles that many Pentecostal denominations make.  I also believe that they have changed over the centuries.  While I don't believe that most Christians today heal the sick, cast out demons, or raise the dead in the same manner as Jesus and the Apostles, I do believe that we use the gifts by our words and deeds.  This would apply to prophecy: while I don't believe that prophets exist today like the type seen in Bible times, various people have served as prophets throughout the Christian era by their teaching.  I don't consider Ellen White to be a prophet in the same sense as the biblical prophets, but she was a prophet in the sense that she was a good teacher who showed her faith by her life and teaching.  The same would apply to Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, Billy Graham, Martin Luther King, Rick Warren, Mother Teresa, St. Francis of Assisi, Pope John Paul, etc.

I have my my own skepticism over Warren but the other specific names I can see your view. Would you put David Wilkerson or Leonard Ravenhill in this list?

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Are you a virgin and, if so, what are you reasons to maintain that pitiful state of affairs?

Simple.  Read Exodus 20:14.  I've been able to get along without sex for 21 years

Stop using the Bible to cover up your failure as a man.

He's not using the Bible to cover up anything Kal. He's standing upon it aa a firm foundation to build his life.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I put this one up in DC's so I'm gonna shoot. What are your thoughts on "The Gifts" (Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12-14) are you cessationist or continualist?

The church's official position is continualist (as evidenced by numbers 17 and 18 in the Fundamental Beliefs), but I take more of a moderate view.  While I certainly lean more toward continualism (why would the Apostolic/spiritual gifts cease with the Apostles?), I don't generally buy into the claims of miracles that many Pentecostal denominations make.  I also believe that they have changed over the centuries.  While I don't believe that most Christians today heal the sick, cast out demons, or raise the dead in the same manner as Jesus and the Apostles, I do believe that we use the gifts by our words and deeds.  This would apply to prophecy: while I don't believe that prophets exist today like the type seen in Bible times, various people have served as prophets throughout the Christian era by their teaching.  I don't consider Ellen White to be a prophet in the same sense as the biblical prophets, but she was a prophet in the sense that she was a good teacher who showed her faith by her life and teaching.  The same would apply to Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, Billy Graham, Martin Luther King, Rick Warren, Mother Teresa, St. Francis of Assisi, Pope John Paul, etc.

I have my my own skepticism over Warren but the other specific names I can see your view. Would you put David Wilkerson or Leonard Ravenhill in this list?

I don't know that much about them, but I probably would.