TitD's random thoughts about food and drink thread

[traininthedistance]

Postulate #1: Odd as it may first seem, Imperial/Double IPAs tend to be relatively easy-drinking crowd pleasers when in comparison to normal IPAs.  Normal IPAs are all too often one-note hop assaults that most people won't like unless they're really into that bitter hop flavor, but the doubles amp everything else up as well- with a heavy mouthfeel, higher alcoholic kick, and in particular a much more pronounced malt flavor/sweetness- that a new equilibrium is reached which is accessible to a wider audience.

Any additions/objections?

I'll probably add more thoughts like this once in awhile, consider this the first in a very irregular series.

[bedstuy]

If you mostly drink East Coast or California beers, I would agree with you 100%.  A great IPA is about layering and balancing hoppiness with the other flavors in the beer.  You don't perceive the bitterness, even when its strong and present, when you get strong flavor notes with the after taste.  Most of the IPAs that you can buy in NYC lack that balance of flavors.

The Midwestern IPAs that I've had tend to balance their flavors much better, without just trying to be the most bitter, hoppy beer possible.  My two favorites are probably Bell's Two Hearted Ale and Surly's Furious Ale.  With both of those, you get a piney, grapefruity aftertaste that cuts the bitterness.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I preferred it when beer was a drink for normals.

[traininthedistance]

If you mostly drink East Coast or California beers, I would agree with you 100%.  A great IPA is about layering and balancing hoppiness with the other flavors in the beer.  You don't perceive the bitterness, even when its strong and present, when you get strong flavor notes with the after taste.  Most of the IPAs that you can buy in NYC lack that balance of flavors.

The Midwestern IPAs that I've had tend to balance their flavors much better, without just trying to be the most bitter, hoppy beer possible.  My two favorites are probably Bell's Two Hearted Ale and Surly's Furious Ale.  With both of those, you get a piney, grapefruity aftertaste that cuts the bitterness.

Figured you'd have something to contribute.  Bell's Two Hearted is indeed good (never had Surly's Furious), but it really feels like the paradigmatic IPA is going to be the "West Coast" style for everybody (friends and foes alike) even if there are exceptions.  I've also seen an explosion of things calling themselves just "pale ales" without the India modifier.  These beers seem to, as a rule, be more balanced and less aggressively hoppy in the way you describe Midwest IPAs, and I do personally like them better than many IPAs.

One thing I do like sometimes are those IPAs which ramp up the aromas but dial down the bitter aftertaste- I know Lagunitas is a West Coast brew but they're the first to come to mind with that sort of approach.

I preferred it when beer was a drink for normals.

There's now beer for all palates- if you want a mild, cheap brew there's still plenty of that out there.  I find it hard to envision this sort of choice as anything but a good thing.

And FTR there are definitely some "mild, cheap" brews that I enjoy and would never dream of looking down on: Yuengling is still one of my go-to favorites, and I dearly wish they had more of it in this city.  But obviously I don't see any point in romanticizing carbonated rice-water.

[bedstuy]

If you mostly drink East Coast or California beers, I would agree with you 100%.  A great IPA is about layering and balancing hoppiness with the other flavors in the beer.  You don't perceive the bitterness, even when its strong and present, when you get strong flavor notes with the after taste.  Most of the IPAs that you can buy in NYC lack that balance of flavors.

The Midwestern IPAs that I've had tend to balance their flavors much better, without just trying to be the most bitter, hoppy beer possible.  My two favorites are probably Bell's Two Hearted Ale and Surly's Furious Ale.  With both of those, you get a piney, grapefruity aftertaste that cuts the bitterness.

Figured you'd have something to contribute.  Bell's Two Hearted is indeed good (never had Surly's Furious), but it really feels like the paradigmatic IPA is going to be the "West Coast" style for everybody (friends and foes alike) even if there are exceptions.  I've also seen an explosion of things calling themselves just "pale ales" without the India modifier.  These beers seem to, as a rule, be more balanced and less aggressively hoppy in the way you describe Midwest IPAs, and I do personally like them better than many IPAs.

One thing I do like sometimes are those IPAs which ramp up the aromas but dial down the bitter aftertaste- I know Lagunitas is a West Coast brew but they're the first to come to mind with that sort of approach.

I have to say, I do like quite a few west coast IPAs.  Green Flash and Stone IPA are probably my favorites that are (somewhat) commonly available in the city.  Unfortunately, we don't have a great beer culture in NYC.  There are a few great beer bars, but the average bar doesn't have any really excellent beers.

You should try some Surly beers if you're ever in Minnesota though. 

[traininthedistance]

I have to say, I do like quite a few west coast IPAs.  Green Flash and Stone IPA are probably my favorites that are (somewhat) commonly available in the city.  Unfortunately, we don't have a great beer culture in NYC.  There are a few great beer bars, but the average bar doesn't have any really excellent beers.

You should try some Surly beers if you're ever in Minnesota though. 

Green Flash is a perfect example of something that's just too one-note hoppy for me, guess there's no accounting for taste.

I feel like we've both had this same lament about NYC's lack of "genuine" beer culture before, and it's true as always.  Obviously the lack of a solid hometown budget lager is a big part of it (though of course a lot of those "hometown" brews are now contract brewed halfway across the country... another reason Yuengling stands above the pack), and the craft beer scene is about ten years behind where you'd expect it to be.  So it's a little unsatisfying at both ends. 

Hell, even Brooklyn Lager is brewed in Utica- they contract most of their operations to the Saranac folks upstate.  (Side note: Saranac was the first craft beer I really encountered growing up in New Jersey, and while none of their stuff is groundbreaking or anything, it's perfectly tasty and competent and not too full of itself, and I've always wondered why nobody ever serves it in the city.  If nothing else, I'd expect their Black Forest Lager to show up here and there.)

[bedstuy]

There's probably some ridiculous mafia cartel or union you need to bribe to get your beer into the average NYC bar.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There's now beer for all palates- if you want a mild, cheap brew there's still plenty of that out there.

I will deliberately misinterpret this and not that Mild is quite nice actually (though is harder to find in this globalised world).

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Choice is fine (but then there always was a degree of choice here). What I dislike is all this 'hints of coffee' or whatever bullsh!t and attendant 'I will now teach you people how to such eggs' snobbery. CAMRA lunatics are a pain as well.

[traininthedistance]

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Choice is fine (but then there always was a degree of choice here). What I dislike is all this 'hints of coffee' or whatever bullsh!t and attendant 'I will now teach you people how to such eggs' snobbery. CAMRA lunatics are a pain as well.

I obviously disagree with this, strenuously- and, by way of explanation, will simply note that there are many, many people who would deride appreciation of Mahler and Britten as "bullsh!t" and "snobbery".

ETA: Also there appears to be a bit of a disconnect between your appreciation of Mild and your distaste for the folks who, at least from a distance, seem to be doing the most to preserve/revive it...

[DINGO Joe]

Dingojoe's random thought:

If you ever start a chain of strip clubs,  they should be called........

[traininthedistance]

Postulate #2:  This is the best meat substitute known to mankind:

[traininthedistance]

Necro time!

Here's a lovely article about one of NYC's most cherished and iconic beverages: Dr. Brown's Cel-Ray, which was throwback and vegetal before throwback and vegetal was cool. 

Man I am suddenly thirsty for one.

[angus]

Postulate #2:  This is the best meat substitute known to mankind:

I don't buy it--Not that I don't like fungi.  We eat them regularly.  In my house right now we have three kinds of mushroom and two kinds of bracket fungi--but it is not a meat substitute.

Even the most proteinacious fungi have only 2% protein by mass.  Moreover, they supply only nine of the ten essential amino acids, and only six of them in any appreciable quantity.  There are a good many meat substitutes out there, but mushrooms aren't among them.

[bedstuy]

Necro time!

Here's a lovely article about one of NYC's most cherished and iconic beverages: Dr. Brown's Cel-Ray, which was throwback and vegetal before throwback and vegetal was cool. 

Man I am suddenly thirsty for one.

I always get a can of Cel-Ray when I go to my local Muslim Jewish deli for a pastrami sandwich. 

As for shrooms, they can approximate the taste, mouth feel and smokiness of a nice piece of meat, even if they aren't similar nutritionally.  I'm especially thinking of a nice portobello Mushroom in an English breakfast, so good.

[angus]

They may approximate the texture of certain animal products (some arthropods and gastropods), but not to a satisfactory extent.  When I'm in the mood for escargot, I'm in the mood for escargot.  When I'm in the mood for clams, I'm in the mood for clams.  A mushroom just doesn't cut it for that experience.

Mushrooms, however, are delicious and have a wonderful texture and flavor of their own.  I find it rather insulting to the entire mushroom race to treat them as a "substitute" for anything. 

TitD is off the mark here.

[traininthedistance]

They may approximate the texture of certain animal products (some arthropods and gastropods), but not to a satisfactory extent.  When I'm in the mood for escargot, I'm in the mood for escargot.  When I'm in the mood for clams, I'm in the mood for clams.  A mushroom just doesn't cut it for that experience.

Mushrooms, however, are delicious and have a wonderful texture and flavor of their own.  I find it rather insulting to the entire mushroom race to treat them as a "substitute" for anything.  

TitD is off the mark here.

What I had in mind with that observation was pretty much along the fuzzy subjective gestalt that bedstuy concurred with, rather than as a strict replacement for vegans/vegetarians (where your points about its non-similar nutrition profile are indeed well taken).  When I say "substitute", I mean that many dishes cry out for a certain...something, not really specifically one taste or texture, perhaps "umami" comes close but its not really exactly that, is it.  And it's a something that you don't really get in most grains or greens, and which we normally fill with animal flesh.  But I find that mushrooms can fill that hole quite admirably, whether it be say a grilled portobello or as the main flavor chunk in a pasta sauce instead of sausage, or whatever.  

This is not to say that mushrooms taste the same as meat, obviously they don't.  They taste like mushrooms.  But that's actually why they're the best, because they fill that same hole while not trying to pretend to be anything other than what they already are.  Would you rather fill your hamburger bun with a Boca Burger or a portobello cap?  I thought so.

[angus]

Would you rather fill your hamburger bun with a Boca Burger or a portobello cap?  I thought so.

haha.  Yeah, I had a bite of boca burger once.  I couldn't wait to get that taste out of my mouth.  I can't believe people actually purchase that stuff.

But really, for me, the mushroom is a beautiful thing by itself, and needn't be introduced to a bun.  As an organism, it represents an oppressed population, neither animal nor vegetable nor mineral, but something else, something yearning for the freedom to explore every nook and cranny of the world.  Sylvia Plath wrote the definitive ode to the mushroom in 1960.  I'll not bore you by quoting it here, but suffice it to say that it is filled with delicious language and vivid imagery.  

As foodstuff, the flavor and texture cannot be defined by a single stanza.  There are so many!  The woody flavor of the white button, intensified upon cooking, perfectly complements a broccoli and fish sauce.  The earthy flavor of the crimini pairs nicely with a rich, succulent Rioja.  The portabella, a grand beast, has a certain meaty texture, but is prone to drying out so it must be consumed fairly quickly after purchase.  The lentinacin in delicious shitake mushrooms lowers my cholesterol, even while the purines make my urine smell so strongly.  The velvety, delicate oyster mushroom has a creamy texture and a mild flavor, but it draws in the flavors of salts and spices so well that it can complement just about any dish.  The unruly enoki mushroom has a certain crunchy texture.  I have no doubt that it received many reprimands and suspensions as a student, but it has the perfect shape and flavor to complement a spicy mongolian stew, or a filipino steamboat.   It can also stand up to a week or more of refrigeration, so it makes for a good staple food.  The fruity chanterelle smells as sweet as an apricot, and sauteed in garlic and thyme, goes well with orecchiette pasta and a buttery California chardonnay.  

And we haven't even begun to explore the chemistry of psilocybin upon the human central nervous system, a milder and shorter version of the acid trip.  Hail, the versatile mushroom!  Gods gift to Julia Childs and stoners everywhere.  Had Sylvia Plath not beaten me to it, I should have to write my own ode to the mushroom.  In fact, I think I just did.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The objectively correct way to eat mushrooms is to fry them in a pan. I am suspicious of most alternative methods.

[traininthedistance]

Want.

[angus]

Want.

Really?  The onion?  You take a big dump on your own thread in this way?

You're eating mushrooms alright.  

You want the attention whore stardom.  I can understand that, and I'm gonna overlook this little prank because I think you don't have the normal advantages.  As far as I know, you're not gay, you're not contemplating suicide, you're not planning your first trip to the United States, and you're not a chunky, virginal, 30-something Oklahoma man who is 1/32nd cherokee and too Asperger's to hold down a steady job, so you don't really have the built-in sensation factor.  

Let us never discuss this again.

[traininthedistance]

Bump!

So, I've had it in my head for awhile that I should get a jar of anchovies and start experimenting with using them in various things (pasta sauce being the first, obvious thing that came to mind).  I got one recently, and opened it for a cheap "odds-and-ends-in-the-pantry" lunch consisting of:

- 1 can cannellini beans
- 1 anchovy
- 1 onion, chopped into tiny pieces and sautéed
- a bit of tomato paste
- lots of black pepper and a dash of fennel

Throw it all in a saucepan (obviously with the onions first), let it simmer and meld for awhile.

It was pretty good!  Next time I might throw in some other veggies like carrots or something, possibly a second can of beans (it wasn't too fishy, but it probably could stand to be a touch less salty) or a touch of chili pepper, or maybe grate some parmesan on top.  Might try some different herbs, also.

[traininthedistance]

This manifesto on what makes a good bagel is the most important thing you will read all month.

[Хahar 🤔]

It's not that that's wrong, just that it's completely orthogonal to my life.

[Ebowed]

Mushrooms rub me the wrong way.  I've never liked them.

I replaced meat with nuts and vegetables.

[bedstuy]

This manifesto on what makes a good bagel is the most important thing you will read all month.

I basically agree with this article.

Thoughts on the best NYC bagel?  Murray's, Absolute, Black Seed, Bergen are all up for me.