Mandatory vacation pay

[politicallefty]

From what I've looked up, about 77% of US employers do provide for paid holidays and vacation time. It's those that work with lower incomes that work part-time and for small businesses that are most disadvantaged when it comes to paid vacation. Of the 77%, the average is 10 days paid vacation and six paid holidays. If that were the statutory minimum for all workers, it would make the US very similar to Canada and ahead of Japan among rich nations.

I think there are benefits of paid vacation time for the employer and society as a whole. As I already mentioned, research does support the notion that a happier worker is a more productive worker. See this article (which advocates for guaranteed paid vacation). To me, though, those are all just incidental benefits. I'm of the mindset that paid vacation/holidays should be considered a basic entitlement.

[Vega]

I think 20 is good enough. I have 15 vacation days at my job, and I have to use them before they expire.

You don't want to overload people.

[afleitch]

I have 31 paid days plus 8 paid public holidays.

[Franzl]

I have 31 paid days plus 8 paid public holidays.

Communist!

[afleitch]

I have 31 paid days plus 8 paid public holidays.

Communist!

Michael still gets suprised. His job allowed him to go home when he was sick and paid him. It blew his mind.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

>40 not including public holidays.  I think it's insane that 6 weeks at the very least is not mandated by federal law.  Much of my family works for the post office.  They are granted 2 two-week vacation periods per year.  I am guaranteed 30 days of paid leave per year (2.5 earned per month).  They simply use a system where everyone is guaranteed those days, but WHICH days/time period is picked is dependant on seniority.  This guarantees that no more than 10% (or 15%, or 20%, whatever is necessary as to not have a major effect on normal function) are taking vacation/leave at any time.  Not perfect, but provides people time to unwind and actually enjoy their lives.  I think it should be expanded to 3 two-week periods for my family and 3.5 days earned per month for myself. 

I feel this much time is essential.  Working the amount that we do is not natural or healthy.  Ideally, society would start moving towards a 4 day work week with a 3 day weekend.  Considering that this is not happening anytime soon, the above seems to be a pragmatic solution. 

But the point is clear and taken.  The US is beyond backward on this issue.  An unfortunate side-effect of the worship of profit. 

[TDAS04]

At least 20-25.

[WorkingClassBro]

>40

[Nutmeg]

Not sure about amount of paid leave specifically, but I'm a big advocate of liberal unpaid leave policies. I'd much rather work, say, 80% of the year for 80% of my otherwise expected salary, without implications for my career/respect I'm afforded in my job. Luckily, working for the federal government, that basically is what I receive relative to my peers working for non-profits in that I receive significantly more paid leave than they do but make less money given my skillset. It really suits me well because I value leisure time over income (above what is required for shelter and food).

[Mordecai]

15 days at a bare minimum, but that's not including sick days.

Edit:

From what I've looked up, about 77% of US employers do provide for paid holidays and vacation time. It's those that work with lower incomes that work part-time and for small businesses that are most disadvantaged when it comes to paid vacation. Of the 77%, the average is 10 days paid vacation and six paid holidays. If that were the statutory minimum for all workers, it would make the US very similar to Canada and ahead of Japan among rich nations.

I think there are benefits of paid vacation time for the employer and society as a whole. As I already mentioned, research does support the notion that a happier worker is a more productive worker. See this article (which advocates for guaranteed paid vacation). To me, though, those are all just incidental benefits. I'm of the mindset that paid vacation/holidays should be considered a basic entitlement.

There you go again with your "entitlements". What are you, some kind of socialist? Lazy hippy.

/s

[politicallefty]

There you go again with your "entitlements". What are you, some kind of socialist? Lazy hippy.

/s

I do agree with some socialist policies, but I can't say I'd outright claim to be a socialist. If supporting four work weeks (i.e. 20 days) of paid vacation plus 10 paid randomly scattered holidays makes me a socialist, I accept that label. All workers should have certain entitlements guaranteed by the government, and that includes vacation pay and the like.

[Mordecai]

I was being sarcastic.

[angus]

FYI, from the current (september 8 ) issue of TIME magazine:

No paid vacation days are required by law.  

Americans received an average of 14 paid vacations days in 2013.

On average, 577 million of those days were unused, which is about 4 per person per year.

Why don't Americans use their vacation days?

27%:  "stockpiling" them for future use
24%:  difficulty in scheduling family vacations
35%:  preferred to work
17%:  chose to cash in on them (not all companies offer this, but some do)

source:  Bureau of Labor Statistics


Lots of other useless stats in this issue as well.  It's called "The Answers Issue."  There's stuff like the first use of some word to mean excellent (e.g. "spiffy" 1853, "epic" 1983, "badass" 1955, "boss" 1836); the percentage of the world's prison population who are in prisons in the United States (25%); and the fraction of folks with household incomes over $200 thousand who have had sex before their 16th birthday (32%).
 

[politicallefty]

I was being sarcastic.

Sorry, lack of sleep hasn't been working well for me.

Why don't Americans use their vacation days?

27%:  "stockpiling" them for future use
24%:  difficulty in scheduling family vacations
35%:  preferred to work
17%:  chose to cash in on them (not all companies offer this, but some do)

I really find it absurd that that number of people actually chose work over paid leave. I think that option and some people that chose the other options are pretty much shunned or otherwise discouraged to take time off. My dad gets 30 days paid vacation per year and they do not roll over to the next year. Whatever he doesn't take during most of the year is tacked on to Christmas break. My mom's paid leave rolls over with added days every year. She generally falls into the first option, taking few days off and seems to be discouraged at work from doing so. Conceivably, she could take an entire year off work with pay.

[angus]

I knew of at least two people who made this claim.  They'd say things like, "Are you kidding, I have a wife and two children!  Hang out with them or hang out in my office?  Easy choice.  One day you'll have a family and you'll see what I mean."  

For about three years I worked at a place that gave three weeks vacation time per year, in addition to two weeks of holidays.  We would occasionally receive emails that said things like "you must use your vacation time by a certain date or lose it..."  We didn't have any choice in the holidays.  There were five non-movable days in the year, plus a week starting at Christmas and ending January 2, and in those periods no one was allowed to come in, but the vacation times were movable.  I knew one guy who sold his vacation time regularly.  He never took any of it, so another employee, who maybe wants to do four weeks, could "buy" an extra week off him, meaning that the other employee would sign a document agreeing to relinquish the equivalent of one week's pay and that the seller would receive the equivalent of one week's pay.  There were some restrictions, but the system worked well enough.  I knew another guy who always meant to sell his vacation time, but always forgot to, or the date came around and there were just no buyers, so he'd lose it.  It does seem that some subset of the population just doesn't want to be with their families.  They'd rather sit in their offices and surf the internet undisturbed by children or spouses.  It's not so strange, really.

I never bought or sold any, but I scheduled cleverly so that my three weeks usually gave me four actual weeks of travel time.  I actually enjoy going snorkeling and cycling and hiking, etc., with my son and my wife.  Certainly I miss the edgy things that I could do before I had an entourage, but still I enjoy vacationing with my family.  I wouldn't sell vacation time if I had it coming.  

Edit:  none of this should be misinterpreted.  I voted none because the question wasn't about how much we enjoy our vacation or how much we take per year--I very much enjoy vacating the premises and generally take at least a month to travel each year--but rather how much should be mandated by law.  I do not think there should be any more laws regarding anything.  Both our personal lives and our economic lives are stymied enough by state encroachment.   We need fewer rules, not more.  The contract between an employee and and an employer is just that:  it's between the employee and the employer and really should not be the concern of lawmakers, who I'm certain enjoy providing a good deal of vacation time for themselves and their families.
 

[politicallefty]

Edit:  none of this should be misinterpreted.  I voted none because the question wasn't about how much we enjoy our vacation or how much we take per year--I very much enjoy vacating the premises and generally take at least a month to travel each year--but rather how much should be mandated by law.  I do not think there should be any more laws regarding anything.  Both our personal lives and our economic lives are stymied enough by state encroachment.   We need fewer rules, not more.  The contract between an employee and and an employer is just that:  it's between the employee and the employer and really should not be the concern of lawmakers, who I'm certain enjoy providing a good deal of vacation time for themselves and their families.

That is the same kind of argument against minimum wage laws and other laws that protect workers. (It sounds like you're basically arguing for the currently defunct liberty of contract.) I don't want to turn this topic into a debate over that, but the return to that philosophy would be nothing less than horrendous for the average worker, let alone those in lower-wage jobs.

[angus]

I wouldn't know.  I use economic arguments when I argue against a federally-mandated minimum wage.  That's a fun topic as well, but I respect that it's a different one.  I think you're the first to have brought that particular topic into this one so don't blame anyone other than yourself it it goes off on that tangent.

[7,052,770]

If we're counting both vacation and sick days together, 20 seems very reasonable for both sides.

I've yet to take more than about 10 in a year, but it would be different if my parents and in-laws lived in other cities/states, so I'm probably a bit of a low anomaly.

[Tender Branson]

That chart in the first page is slightly wrong:

In Austria you have 25 days of paid vacation and 13 paid public holidays. So 38 in total, not 35.

If you have worked 25 years in the same company, you have 30 days of paid vacation + 13 holidays.

I like it this way.

[angus]

If you have worked 25 years in the same company, you have 30 days of paid vacation + 13 holidays.

It's like that here as well, in many places.  For example, at Google you get 15 days when you start, 20 days after your third year, and 25 days after your fifth year, etc.  Merck starts with 10, then it increases to 15 after a few years.  IBM starts with 12 paid holidays and 10 vacation days, then goes to 20 vacation days after ten years.  Netflix gives its employees unlimited paid vacation days, so long as they complete their work.  Many other companies are experimenting with this as a recruiting tool as well.  On the other hand, some companies do not guarantee any paid vacation days to their employees.  There is a great deal of variation in the US in this regard. 

I'm actually not sure how many "paid vacation days" I get.  It doesn't seem particularly relevant.  There are certain times in the year when I know I can go away for a month, and other times when I know I have to work, and it all works fairly well this way.

There's also a sick leave policy.  I've looked into that.  We accumulate something like 15 days of sick leave per year and they are cumulative from year to year.  Typically this is paid off as a lump sum at retirement.  I suppose that this is a common situation.  I think we are limited to one week without a physicians note and one year with a physicians note.  In my entire career, I have only taken one sick day.  If I'm sniffly or have a headache, I work through it.  I suppose that is common as well. 

There is also language in my contract regarding jury duty, sickness in the immediate family, and the like, but I forget the details.  The actual annual pay is whatever it says in my contract, and it won't vary due to jury duty or sickness in the family, but there is a limit to the number of days I'm contractually allowed to be absent for those reasons. 

The main thing to remember is that in the US, these contracts are strictly between the employee and the employer.  It's not a government-mandated thing.  Well, there may be some federal or state law regarding jury duty, but otherwise it's not a matter for the government.

[muon2]

I'm actually not sure how many "paid vacation days" I get.  It doesn't seem particularly relevant.  There are certain times in the year when I know I can go away for a month, and other times when I know I have to work, and it all works fairly well this way.

Where I teach, faculty and professional staff who work less than 10 1/2 months have no specific vacation policy. Most faculty are paid on a nine month contract. Faculty are expected to identify where and what they are working on in general for a given day of the week, basically fill out a form at the beginning of the semester. There are fixed holidays and closures at winter and spring break, which are paid. The three month summer break is unpaid, though some teach summer classes or have research grants to provide income, but vacation does not accrue then either.

Personally, I just plan my vacations for the academic breaks. It's not like one can tell a lecture hall of general education students that the professor is going to take a week vacation during the 5th week of the semester. Technically I can take sick days, but I haven't needed to. I do sometimes have conferences or academic meetings off campus, but then I plan a proctored test or get a guest lecturer for that day. I've covered other classes as a guest lecturer as well, when they needed the day.

[angus]

There are fixed holidays and closures at winter and spring break, which are paid. The three month summer break is unpaid, though some teach summer classes or have research grants to provide income, but vacation does not accrue then either.

I think that's pretty standard.  I don't think we're meant to get sick between about August 25 and December 10.  We can get sick all we want between about December 10 and January 20.  Then we're pretty much all about staying well between January 20 and May 15.  What we do between about May 15 and August 25 is nobody's business.  I get paid only 9 months as well, and it's during the three months that I'm not being paid that I usually vacate.  I don't have any qualms with that arrangement.  A couple of years I applied for and received a competitive grant for research, and a couple of years I have taught classes, but usually I prefer just to be off the clock during the summer.  Then again, I'm not at the sort of place where I'm expected to secure outside funding.  There may be slight differences in that regard.

When I think about my neighbors, I recall that one is an air force lieutenant colonel and the other is an accountant at a local theological seminary.  They both seem to have fairly salubrious vacation policies.  I'm not sure that military and academic personnel are representative of the general population with respect to vacation policies.  I've always been under the impression that my grad school colleagues who chose to work in the private sector received much larger salaries than I--in fact I know that to be the case with those I've kept in touch with--but also had more stringent vacation policies.

[New_Conservative]

Mandated sick pay is a obvious must, but I feel differently about mandated vacation pay.

[politicallefty]

If we're counting both vacation and sick days together, 20 seems very reasonable for both sides.

I've yet to take more than about 10 in a year, but it would be different if my parents and in-laws lived in other cities/states, so I'm probably a bit of a low anomaly.

Speaking for myself, I would not include sick pay among paid vacation days. An employee generally asks for paid vacation some time in advance of actually taking it. Sick leave is different, often taken on the day of or before. I think that's a different right and that employees should have maybe 5-10 days paid sick leave without question (particularly for those with a family). Anything beyond that should require a doctor's excuse (parental leave is another question altogether, with should also be paid to a certain extent).

If I may ask, what does your employer offer in terms of paid leave (both vacation and sick) and what happens if you do not use all of your allotted days?

[DS0816]

For everyone who answers "None" You have no value for human life. (Not even your own.)