Do you consider yourself a patriotic person?

[Sopranos Republican]

Yes, and no. I consider myself to be a patriotic person in the sense that I am proud of what America is supposed to be. There is a "fake America": the one that Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln,  Stevens,. the Roosevelts fought for. Then there is one which you will hear the Fox News' of the world refer to as: "The Real America." In "The Real America" there is no such thing as too much corporate power, our "Christian values" (Christian being whatever happens to be beneficial to the haves) are the only thing that keeps us from going the way of both ancient Greece and modern Greece,  gays are fine unless of course they expect employment from a person of religious conviction, our national debt is God's way of punishing us for abortion, brown people are poor because they are all lazy, and of course immigrants and jihadists are stealing our "National Identity."

Then there is "The fake America": The one where someone just so happened to be born in another country, and dare decided that instead of living in poverty and obscurity for the remainder of their days, they'd come to a place where they had a chance to break free from the demons of the past. The one where we fought for years to break free ftom the rule of some bastards who thought they had power just because they were born into it. The one where we didn't start a business, and become the oh so noble "job creators": but instead demanded after working for the "job creators" and building their businesses, that they'd treat us as men, as Martin Luther King Jr. demanded. The fake America where the Radical idea runs rampant that Healthcare is a right, and that instead of paying for additional wars to feed the pockets of weapons manufacturers,  we should be caring for the noble ones who served our country in past conflicts by paying for their food and healthcare, not for their sons to be sent off to risk their lives in further, more pointless conflicts.

"Fake" America where Abraham Lincoln is the ideal, not Ronald f***ing Reagan.

Yes, this is a long goddamn post . But the misperception of history that people are force fed is incredible. The lines have been blurred between what is American, and what isn't, by those with power. The America that long existed, and was the ideal has been vilified,  and replaced with a version of "Patriotism" that means: praising the ultra rich by cutting all taxes on them, supporting any and every war that is deemed "necessary for freedom", and of course the real Americans are white protestants who attend church weekly, and run farms or businesses. My point is that The Real Americans who have been deemed as "Unpatriotic" need to forcibly take back Patriotism from those who have hijacked the very meaning of being an American. If not, democracy will continue to die a slow, painful death.

[The Dowager Mod]

Yes.

[ElectionsGuy]

Yes, and no. I consider myself to be a patriotic person in the sense that I am proud of what America is supposed to be. There is a "fake America": the one that Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln,  Stevens,. the Roosevelts fought for. Then there is one which you will hear the Fox News' of the world refer to as: "The Real America." In "The Real America" there is no such thing as too much corporate power, our "Christian values" (Christian being whatever happens to be beneficial to the haves) are the only thing that keeps us from going the way of both ancient Greece and modern Greece,  gays are fine unless of course they expect employment from a person of religious conviction, our national debt is God's way of punishing us for abortion, brown people are poor because they are all lazy, and of course immigrants and jihadists are stealing our "National Identity."

Then there is "The fake America": The one where someone just so happened to be born in another country, and dare decided that instead of living in poverty and obscurity for the remainder of their days, they'd come to a place where they had a chance to break free from the demons of the past. The one where we fought for years to break free ftom the rule of some bastards who thought they had power just because they were born into it. The one where we didn't start a business, and become the oh so noble "job creators": but instead demanded after working for the "job creators" and building their businesses, that they'd treat us as men, as Martin Luther King Jr. demanded. The fake America where the Radical idea runs rampant that Healthcare is a right, and that instead of paying for additional wars to feed the pockets of weapons manufacturers,  we should be caring for the noble ones who served our country in past conflicts by paying for their food and healthcare, not for their sons to be sent off to risk their lives in further, more pointless conflicts.

"Fake" America where Abraham Lincoln is the ideal, not Ronald f***ing Reagan.

Yes, this is a long goddamn post . But the misperception of history that people are force fed is incredible. The lines have been blurred between what is American, and what isn't, by those with power. The America that long existed, and was the ideal has been vilified,  and replaced with a version of "Patriotism" that means: praising the ultra rich by cutting all taxes on them, supporting any and every war that is deemed "necessary for freedom", and of course the real Americans are white protestants who attend church weekly, and run farms or businesses. My point is that The Real Americans who have been deemed as "Unpatriotic" need to forcibly take back Patriotism from those who have hijacked the very meaning of being an American. If not, democracy will continue to die a slow, painful death.

Great post, Matt. I must say though, where have you heard the bolded? It just made me lol

[Badger]

No (R). What have I ever done for this county to qualify as patriotic? I mean, I like the US, consider it my home, treat the flag with respect, and have no problems with the Pledge of Allegiance, but those are just generic respect.

That's a very interesting answer from apparantly the only Republican to vote no. May I suggest that the your first line conveys a very "ask not way your country can do for you..." sentiment, which itself conveys a very patriotic point of view, TJ.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Yes. And frankly, I immediately lose respect for people who aren't. My country isn't just maple leafs and lumberjacks; it's the people who live here and help make Canada great. Same goes in the US. To me, denouncing patriotism is to denounce your neighbour, your friends, your family, and, in many cases, your ancestors. No one person is better than the collective.

[Flake]

Yes. And frankly, I immediately lose respect for people who aren't. My country isn't just maple leafs and lumberjacks; it's the people who live here and help make Canada great. Same goes in the US. To me, denouncing patriotism is to denounce your neighbour, your friends, your family, and, in many cases, your ancestors. No one person is better than the collective.

What?

[TNF]

Yes. And frankly, I immediately lose respect for people who aren't. My country isn't just maple leafs and lumberjacks; it's the people who live here and help make Canada great. Same goes in the US. To me, denouncing patriotism is to denounce your neighbour, your friends, your family, and, in many cases, your ancestors. No one person is better than the collective.

Denouncing patriotism is not denouncing your neighbor, friends, family, or ancestors. It's denouncing the civic religion that says I have more in common with an American one percenter than I do a Canadian 99 percenter, which is ludicrous not just from a modern vantage point, but the entire history of both our countries. Patriotism is a civic religion that helps the one percenters obscure the actual conflict in society that exists between them and everyone else. It tells us to hate the foreigner we struggle alongside, but love the parasite who has the same skin color or speaks the same language that we do. There is nothing wrong with loving where you hail from or honoring local traditions; but there is something else at play entirely when those acts are elevated to the status of untouchability and used as a means of attacking and denouncing other people because they don't hail from the same place on the map that you do.

[RR1997]

Yes, very much so, although not to the point where I'm all "If you don't like it, you can GIT OUT!"

[Lief 🗽]

Only during international sporting events.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Yes. And frankly, I immediately lose respect for people who aren't. My country isn't just maple leafs and lumberjacks; it's the people who live here and help make Canada great. Same goes in the US. To me, denouncing patriotism is to denounce your neighbour, your friends, your family, and, in many cases, your ancestors. No one person is better than the collective.

What?

I just mean that patriotism, to me, is about more than the abstract consumer icons. In the US, the hicks who wear eagle shirts with stars and stripes aren't necessarily more patriotic than the people who don't.

Yes. And frankly, I immediately lose respect for people who aren't. My country isn't just maple leafs and lumberjacks; it's the people who live here and help make Canada great. Same goes in the US. To me, denouncing patriotism is to denounce your neighbour, your friends, your family, and, in many cases, your ancestors. No one person is better than the collective.

Denouncing patriotism is not denouncing your neighbor, friends, family, or ancestors. It's denouncing the civic religion that says I have more in common with an American one percenter than I do a Canadian 99 percenter, which is ludicrous not just from a modern vantage point, but the entire history of both our countries. Patriotism is a civic religion that helps the one percenters obscure the actual conflict in society that exists between them and everyone else. It tells us to hate the foreigner we struggle alongside, but love the parasite who has the same skin color or speaks the same language that we do. There is nothing wrong with loving where you hail from or honoring local traditions; but there is something else at play entirely when those acts are elevated to the status of untouchability and used as a means of attacking and denouncing other people because they don't hail from the same place on the map that you do.

Being proud of who you are, embracing where you come from, and feeling kinship with your fellow countrymen does not preclude you from being a good global citizen. My patriotism doesn't teach me to hate and it doesn't come with the stipulation that I must more closely identify with a Canadian billionaire than an American prole. Sure, patriotism can be manipulated and perverted by the people in power, but so can the kinship you're talking about between members of the working class. In fact, we've seen it happen on countless occasions.

You're dealing in extremes because it suits your extremism. For me, it's separate from politics. Celebrating one of the things that unites us isn't inherently bad.

[Flake]

Yes. And frankly, I immediately lose respect for people who aren't. My country isn't just maple leafs and lumberjacks; it's the people who live here and help make Canada great. Same goes in the US. To me, denouncing patriotism is to denounce your neighbour, your friends, your family, and, in many cases, your ancestors. No one person is better than the collective.

What?

I just mean that patriotism, to me, is about more than the abstract consumer icons. In the US, the hicks who wear eagle shirts with stars and stripes aren't necessarily more patriotic than the people who don't.

But... everyone in America is a hick who wears eagle shirts with stars and stripes?