If you had to pick one of these amendments... (user search)
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  If you had to pick one of these amendments... (search mode)
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Liberty Amendment
 
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Federal Marriage Amendment
 
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Author Topic: If you had to pick one of these amendments...  (Read 4935 times)
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,270


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23

« on: April 04, 2005, 05:03:13 PM »

Philip, JJ is right.  By your widely publicized logic, the forgoeing powers are those specified in Clause 2-17 of Article I Section 8, which rpovides for an Army, navy, and miltia.  There is no specific provision for an Air Force.

You have said repeatedly that only those specified powers in Clause 2-17 are empowered by Clause 1.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,270


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23

« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2005, 07:45:58 PM »

There was no such thing as an Air Force at the time the Constitution was adopted. I guess I could respond to your comments, if not for the fact that I already did.

And, where else, but this very topic:

The power of national defense is definitely specified in the Constitution. You take the original meaning of the text and apply it to today's world.

This is a blatant self contradiction.  You said, only days ago, that only Clauses 2-17 taken through the eyes of the Founders could be construed as the intent of Clause 1.  You said nothing about applying it to todays world, in fact you've repeatedly said the opposite, that the Constitution must be seen through the eyes of the intent of its authors (You started a thread today asking that Judges swear to uhold the intent of the founders only).  Now you're telling us they should reinterpret it through modern lenses?

Which is it, Ace, 18th Century glasses or 21st Century?  You can't have both.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,270


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23

« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2005, 09:18:41 PM »

Applying the old meaning to new information is not the same as modifying the meaning. It is applying it. The Constitution dictates a standard for affecting the enumerated powers, and that is that it be both necessary and proper.

Only a damned fool would argue that the power to provide and maintain a navy does not immediately imply the power to provide and maintain an Air Force in the modern world.

The so-called "elastic clause" (though I don't like that phrase - elastic would imply convenience rather than necessity) is there for a reason. A document can become over time so that the words of the document can become detached from the powers delegated in that Constitution.

Numerous writings by the founders clearly indicate this is exactly what the necessary and proper clause means.

It seems you oly apply the elastic clause when it suits your ideology.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,270


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23

« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2005, 10:42:00 PM »

It is not necessary to have an Air Force, strictly speaking.  It is only necessary because we choose to be a world military power, but if we were willing to let the world do as it might, we could easily do without an Air Force at all.

I think its important to have an Air Force, but it is not necessary to having a fnctioning government.  Necessary and proper is a matter of judgement.
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