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Author Topic: MUH TARIFFS  (Read 8114 times)
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« on: July 16, 2014, 10:30:46 AM »
« edited: July 17, 2014, 05:18:15 PM by Emperor Scott »

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Never
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2014, 10:35:52 AM »

Say what?! Also, who are the 9% of Mississippi Democrats who would back the Confederates? Mississippi is such a strange state.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2014, 11:06:54 AM »

Both awful and amusing, but not surprising. 
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 11:08:26 AM »

Methinks the real number is actually much higher.
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SWE
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 11:15:36 AM »

Lower than I expected.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2014, 11:36:12 AM »

I am the 37 percent. 
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 12:13:35 PM »

Um...who wouldn't? If your home was actually going to be invaded, would you really choose to side with the invader? Well, maybe out of fear, but you don't have to admit that on a survey.
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2014, 12:13:56 PM »

To be fair, this is slightly lower than what most would expect and I am sure most leftists expected the number to be closer to 90%.
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King
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2014, 12:34:13 PM »

Even in a peaceful secession, the Confederacy would be a 3rd world country from day one.
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memphis
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 12:45:26 PM »

It's not an "invasion" when a government arrives to put down an internal treason. The Confederate apologists are ridiculous.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2014, 12:56:12 PM »

This is why most sensible people agree that Reconstruction should have never ended.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 01:02:35 PM »

...There are actual people on this forum defending the existence of and supporting the idea of fighting for a nation based entirely on slavery.
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 01:10:42 PM »

...There are actual people on this forum defending the existence of and supporting the idea of fighting for a nation based entirely on slavery.
No.  This not quite what I meant.

I've deleted my post.
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2014, 01:11:12 PM »

...There are actual people on this forum defending the existence of and supporting the idea of fighting for a nation based entirely on slavery.
Come on, you're actually telling me that you would allow your home to be destroyed for the sake of a war which, as its prosecutors made clear, was not being waged to abolish slavery? You're aware that around 70-80% of Southerners at the time did not own slaves, right?
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2014, 01:12:32 PM »

Further proof that Mississippi was a huge mistake and needs to be carpet bombed pronto.
However, I do not think carpet bombing and genociding Mississippi is exactly a great idea.
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2014, 01:13:46 PM »

...There are actual people on this forum defending the existence of and supporting the idea of fighting for a nation based entirely on slavery.
Come on, you're actually telling me that you would allow your home to be destroyed for the sake of a war which, as its prosecutors made clear, was not being waged to abolish slavery? You're aware that around 70-80% of Southerners at the time did not own slaves, right?
The war was pretty clearly about slavery.  What do you think it was about?
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Simfan34
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2014, 01:14:55 PM »
« Edited: July 16, 2014, 05:43:00 PM by Simfan34 »

RINOs.

The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!


EDIT: Also the video was apparently made by a "Henok Gugsa". Abeshas know what it's about. Smiley
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2014, 01:15:12 PM »


I can't tell if this post is serious or not.  I find that quite worrying.

...There are actual people on this forum defending the existence of and supporting the idea of fighting for a nation based entirely on slavery.
Come on, you're actually telling me that you would allow your home to be destroyed for the sake of a war which, as its prosecutors made clear, was not being waged to abolish slavery? You're aware that around 70-80% of Southerners at the time did not own slaves, right?
The war was pretty clearly about slavery.  What do you think it was about?

Not this s**t again.
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2014, 01:18:01 PM »

I know, that is what I was thinking.
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Deus Naturae
Deus naturae
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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2014, 01:18:45 PM »

Scott, do you actually deny that Lincoln's intent in invading South was NOT the abolition of slavery, but rather the preservation of the Union and the enforcement of tariff laws? That's kind of a historical fact that all of the mainstream sources will affirm. Not really a controversial statement.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2014, 01:23:43 PM »

Consider this excerpt from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address (emphasis mine):

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Lincoln plainly stated that the ONLY reason he would invade the South would be to enforce the tariff laws. Thus, unless one is an extremely passionate proponent of protectionism, it makes no sense to allow the destruction of one's hearth and home rather than attempt to repel Lincoln's invading forces.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2014, 01:24:32 PM »
« Edited: July 16, 2014, 01:44:52 PM by Del Tachi »

Even in a peaceful secession, the Confederacy would be a 3rd world country from day one.

Ummm...not even close.

If you took the states that seceded and imagine them asa new country, it would be the world's 4th largest economy with a nominal GDP of 4.86 trillion per year.  That makes it larger than the "First world" countries of Germany, France, the UK and Canada.  With a population of 101 million people (which would make it the world's 12th most populous country, and bump the U.S. down to the number 4 spot) it would have a GDP/capita of $48,118 per year.  This puts the CSA in the 7th spot with a higher GDP/capita than Switzerland, Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, Sweden, Kuwait and Denmark to name a few.  Also with an annual GDP growth rate of 3.2% per year, I'd say that a modern-day CSA would be doing quite well by international standards.

Hardly a Third World country in my book.  Wouldn't you agree?


I can't tell if this post is serious or not.  I find that quite worrying.


If we're getting a second Civil War in 2014, then its obviously not being fought over slavery or Jim Crow.

Why would I want the South - one of the best and most unique cultural regions in the entire world - to be in a country where its historically been marginalized?  The South of the 21st Century is nothing to be afraid or ashamed of, and its independence is probably a blessing in disguise for both the USA and the new CSA.    

  
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bore
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« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2014, 01:28:09 PM »

If you don't think that slavery was the cause of the war, [ur=http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html]you could read what the south themselves had to say about it.[/url]

Then, you should read these excellent posts by gully.

Then, you should stop talking about the civil war.
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2014, 01:29:22 PM »

Even in a peaceful secession, the Confederacy would be a 3rd world country from day one.

Ummm...not even close.

If you took the states that seceded and imagine them asa new country, it would be the world's 4th largest economy with a nominal GDP of 4.86 trillion per year.  That makes it larger than the "First world" countries of Germany, France, the UK and Canada.  With a population of 101 million people (which would make it the world's 12th most populous country, and bump the U.S. down to the number 4 spot) it would have a GDP/capita of $48,118 per year.  This puts the CSA in the 7th spot with a higher GDP/capita than Switzerland, Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, Sweden, Kuwait and Denmark to name a few.

Hardly a Third World country in my book.  Wouldn't you agree?

  
Assuming it gained independence in the Ciil War, it has an economy heavily based off agriculture, a vast segment of the society enslaved and treated pretty badly as well as a lot of poor whites.  The CSA is going to need to get its act together and start industrializing.  The US, meanwhile, will probably want the place back. The US can support a large standing army, and, with its immigration polciies, will continue growing.  The CS needs a large standing army, but if you spend all the money on that, you can't industrialize.  Without foreign gaurruntees to its defense, or assistance in industrializing, it will eventually economically collapse.  Likely, that will lead to full on slave revolts, or a revolution by the lower class white, wanting to not be poor as dirt.  Then, in a civil war, they will have to fend off the US.  It's survival just doesn't seem likely.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2014, 01:30:58 PM »
« Edited: July 16, 2014, 01:36:59 PM by Del Tachi »

Even in a peaceful secession, the Confederacy would be a 3rd world country from day one.

Ummm...not even close.

If you took the states that seceded and imagine them asa new country, it would be the world's 4th largest economy with a nominal GDP of 4.86 trillion per year.  That makes it larger than the "First world" countries of Germany, France, the UK and Canada.  With a population of 101 million people (which would make it the world's 12th most populous country, and bump the U.S. down to the number 4 spot) it would have a GDP/capita of $48,118 per year.  This puts the CSA in the 7th spot with a higher GDP/capita than Switzerland, Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, Sweden, Kuwait and Denmark to name a few.

Hardly a Third World country in my book.  Wouldn't you agree?

   
Assuming it gained independence in the Ciil War, it has an economy heavily based off agriculture, a vast segment of the society enslaved and treated pretty badly as well as a lot of poor whites.  The CSA is going to need to get its act together and start industrializing.  The US, meanwhile, will probably want the place back. The US can support a large standing army, and, with its immigration polciies, will continue growing.  The CS needs a large standing army, but if you spend all the money on that, you can't industrialize.  Without foreign gaurruntees to its defense, or assistance in industrializing, it will eventually economically collapse.  Likely, that will lead to full on slave revolts, or a revolution by the lower class white, wanting to not be poor as dirt.  Then, in a civil war, they will have to fend off the US.  It's survival just doesn't seem likely.

You missed the point.

If the 11 states of the Confederacy decided to secede again today, they would immediately be a major player on the international stage both politically and economically.

And even in an alternate universe where the South does win its independence back in the 1860s, there's no reason to believe that it wouldn't have eventually industrialized and modernized in a way that would make into a world player.  The United States was itself vastly agrarian economy for most of its early history as well, after all.  European powers would have had a vested interest in seeing the CSA succeed, as it means a weaker United States, and would have supported it financially and militarily until it was able to stand on its on.

Also, with a notably less Anglo population due to the South having seceded, the United States probably doesn't come to the Allies aid during WWI and the CSA takes on the role as Western Europe's premier American ally.     
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