The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[Silent Hunter]

New truce agreed

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Thank fyck for that.

[Hnv1]

Best solution in my eyes:
-recognizing the unity government allowing the PA to return to Gaza and have an election.
- lifting the siege and opening the Egyptian border with international monitoring.
- consolidating all Palestinian militias under the PA
- Recovery programme for Gaza (mainly) and the West Bank
- 10 years "truce" in which permanent negotiations will take place in the "onion" method - a series of agreement to get us to the two state solution but in a gradual way
- building the connecting road between the West Bank and Gaza and easing the move of commodities and individuals
- recognition by the Arab League of Israel, and their support in implementing all future agreements.
- development of the Gaza marine gas fields so they can pump some hard currency into their economy (or actually starting to build one).

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Best solution in my eyes:
-recognizing the unity government allowing the PA to return to Gaza and have an election.
- lifting the siege and opening the Egyptian border with international monitoring.
- consolidating all Palestinian militias under the PA
- Recovery programme for Gaza (mainly) and the West Bank
- 10 years "truce" in which permanent negotiations will take place in the "onion" method - a series of agreement to get us to the two state solution but in a gradual way
- building the connecting road between the West Bank and Gaza and easing the move of commodities and individuals
- recognition by the Arab League of Israel, and their support in implementing all future agreements.
- development of the Gaza marine gas fields so they can pump some hard currency into their economy (or actually starting to build one).

You forgot one very important requirement for there to be any potential progress towards a lasting peace.  A complete and total halt to all building of Jewish settlements (including plans to build additional homes within existing settlements) beyond the 1967 borders. (Or at least beyond any area that has been agreed to by both sides will be part of Israel following a final peace.) Otherwise, it looks like something that simply gives Israel more time to build more facts on the ground to dispossess the Palestinians of more of the West Bank and thus has zero chance of being acceptable to the Palestinians.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

The only way Israel would agree to a solution like that is the disarmament of all Palestinians -- which is almost impossible. The other solution would be to bring in international peacekeepers to supplement Palestinian forces. If they're controlled by a third party, I can see that being agreed to by Israel (chances of being agreed to by Hamas though are incredibly slim).

[Silent Hunter]

Would a disarmed Palestinian state be that bad a thing? No-one's invaded Costa Rica.

[Hnv1]

Best solution in my eyes:
-recognizing the unity government allowing the PA to return to Gaza and have an election.
- lifting the siege and opening the Egyptian border with international monitoring.
- consolidating all Palestinian militias under the PA
- Recovery programme for Gaza (mainly) and the West Bank
- 10 years "truce" in which permanent negotiations will take place in the "onion" method - a series of agreement to get us to the two state solution but in a gradual way
- building the connecting road between the West Bank and Gaza and easing the move of commodities and individuals
- recognition by the Arab League of Israel, and their support in implementing all future agreements.
- development of the Gaza marine gas fields so they can pump some hard currency into their economy (or actually starting to build one).

You forgot one very important requirement for there to be any potential progress towards a lasting peace.  A complete and total halt to all building of Jewish settlements (including plans to build additional homes within existing settlements) beyond the 1967 borders. (Or at least beyond any area that has been agreed to by both sides will be part of Israel following a final peace.) Otherwise, it looks like something that simply gives Israel more time to build more facts on the ground to dispossess the Palestinians of more of the West Bank and thus has zero chance of being acceptable to the Palestinians.

Sorry it was pretty obvious to me. Yes the first of the agreement should deal with borders and define them.

Regarding the demilitarization, it was actually a Palestinian back idea (back in the days of camp david) in order to avoid the plague of military coups that rid the Arab world.

[ingemann]

Why would Israel keep the blockade in effect if they were no longer threatened from Gaza? If Israel were interested in keeping Gaza it wouldn't have dismantled settlements there.

To keep Gaza as a threat allow Israel to expand their settlement on the West Bank on the argument that the Palestinians doesn't cooperate. If the Israeli government really cared about peace, they would not continue sabotage the negotiation with Fatah by keep building settlements.

They don't want peace and they're willing to find the excuse for the Palestinians being the aggressors, and we have some people in the West who are willing to asccept those excuses no matter how stupid the excuses are.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Would a disarmed Palestinian state be that bad a thing? No-one's invaded Costa Rica.

Obviously not, and considering how well it worked in Northern Ireland, it probably is a sensible thing to do. If the Palestinians are assured UN or US peacekeepers, Fatah may be willing to play ball. But of course, its Hamas that's the problem.

[Cory]

Would it be possible to have an entirely separate peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians in the West Bank? This way we can largely bypass Hamas and still resolve most of the main issues.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

Would it be possible to have an entirely separate peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians in the West Bank? This way we can largely bypass Hamas and still resolve most of the main issues.

The problem is that the Palestinians in the West Bank feel a kinship with the Gazans won't deal without them as of right now.

[Sbane]

All this talk of a peace deal ignores the fact that the current government in Israel is not interested in a lasting peace.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I love the idea that a nation which has been occupied and seen large parts of it gobbled away over the last 70 years should be forced to unilaterally disarm.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Of course, had the Palestinians adopted Gandhi/MLK tactics they could have won 30 years ago.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Of course, had the Palestinians adopted Gandhi/MLK tactics they could have won 30 years ago.

No they could not have.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Of course, had the Palestinians adopted Gandhi/MLK tactics they could have won 30 years ago.

Really, all they had to do was take the Camp David offer. The problem is, Arafat knew he would be assassinated by Hamas if he did.

[ingemann]

Of course, had the Palestinians adopted Gandhi/MLK tactics they could have won 30 years ago.

Really, all they had to do was take the Camp David offer. The problem is, Arafat knew he would be assassinated by Hamas if he did.

Yes all they need to do was to voluntary bend over, and when Israel would use lube when they raped them.

[politicus]

Of course, had the Palestinians adopted Gandhi/MLK tactics they could have won 30 years ago.

No they could not have.

Depends how you define "won". It would have been extremely difficult for Israel to deny self government to a Palestinian movement using Gandhi tactics, and the international community would have been even more massively pro-Palestinian than it is now - including public opinion in the US.
Using police state methods against a peaceful civil rights movement is hard for a democracy to sustain over time and would have met massive internal opposition in Israel.
Claiming "Palestinians = terrorists" have been the Israeli right wings great trump card through the years.

I think the whole settlement program would have been impossible to implement and autonomous Palestinian areas would have evolved into a Palestinian state over the years.
 

[Simfan34]

Truce extended for 5 more days.

[Miles]

Shelling/bombing leading to massive food shortage in Gaza:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28814555

[dead0man]

link

A 24hr extension to cease fire to hammer out the details.  Looks like the peace will hold....reports for the truce include:
1. The Erez and Kerem Shalom crossings will be opened permanently, with building materials allowed to enter under international supervision.

2. The area allowed for fishing in Gaza waters will be expanded from 6 to 9 miles, and then to 12 miles (as Hamas demanded) within 6 months.

3. Gaza’s electrical crisis will be solved within a year.

4. A principled agreement was reached to build a seaport in Gaza, a matter to be discussed in a month.

5. The release of Palestinian prisoners will be discussed one month from the signing of the agreement.


Of course this will only work if the hotheads can keep from firing rockets, hopefully the PA and the west can keep them from rearming, but I'm not going to hold my breath.  The PRC and Islamic Jihad both said they were going to fire rockets if the cease fire is extended with no truce.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Bad news again: rocket attacks launched from Gaze, Israel retaliates with air strikes.

[dead0man]

Color me not surprised.

[swl]

link

A 24hr extension to cease fire to hammer out the details.  Looks like the peace will hold....reports for the truce include:
1. The Erez and Kerem Shalom crossings will be opened permanently, with building materials allowed to enter under international supervision.

2. The area allowed for fishing in Gaza waters will be expanded from 6 to 9 miles, and then to 12 miles (as Hamas demanded) within 6 months.

3. Gaza’s electrical crisis will be solved within a year.

4. A principled agreement was reached to build a seaport in Gaza, a matter to be discussed in a month.

5. The release of Palestinian prisoners will be discussed one month from the signing of the agreement.

I don't think that a truce will be agreed on these terms, as shown by the events of today. Points 1 and 2 seem acceptable for both sides. Point 4 seems more or less ok, but points 3 and 5 seem too vague to be accepted by the Palestinians.