The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[Antonio the Sixth]

My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

Simfan, make yourself a favour and block this piece of s***

Uh, what?

[MalaspinaGold]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/israel-launches-ground-operation-gaza-strip-n158646
Ground attacks begin.

[Angel of Death]

That parasite is clearly exploiting the plane incident by starting a ground offensive just now.

[Simfan34]

My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

Simfan, make yourself a favour and block this piece of s***

Uh, what?

I might take his advice if you don't calm down. I mean, really.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/a-plague-on-one-house/

[H. Ross Peron]

To quoth Reagan: "There they go again".

[Antonio the Sixth]

My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

Simfan, make yourself a favour and block this piece of s***

Uh, what?

I might take his advice if you don't calm down. I mean, really.

What the hell are you talking about?

[Velasco]

Sorry, Antonio. I quoted your post because I agree, basically. It looks like I said the contrary, how foolish of me.

 

[Middle-aged Europe]

My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

I tend to share that sentiment.

A couple of years ago, I had both a Jewish and a Palestinian Facebook friend and both were very dedicated in sharing their views on the conflict. So, the Jew usually posted news articles on the evils the Palestinians had comitted during the week, and the Palestinian posted news on the evils the Israelis are doing at the moment.

And this is basically what it boils down to: Two sides who equally view themselves as victims.

[Simfan34]

My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

Simfan, make yourself a favour and block this piece of s***

Uh, what?

I might take his advice if you don't calm down. I mean, really.

What the hell are you talking about?

You're always so worked up about something. I mean, I largely agree with you but I just imagine you shouting all the time.

[ingemann]

My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

I can only agree. I was rampant pro-Israel while I was high school and while I read at my old university. The primary reason for this was how much I despised the pro-Palestinian side, their arguments and their general obnoxiousness. But some year later, at the moment when the Lebanon invasion happened, I lost any respect I had for Israel, which lead me look more objective on the settlements, and since then no matter how much I think the Palestinians are a bunch of morons, I have come to the conclusion, that Tel Aviv not Ramallah are the primary reason that we don't see a peace today.

I actually had a pretty similar evolution - actually, I still kinda defended Israel during the invasion of Lebanon and even the Gaza one. What really cut it for me was the continued colonization process, since there it just can't be defended under any rationale based on Israel's safety, and just prove the government doesn't give a sh*t about peace.

From what I have experience it's not a that uncommon development.

I think the primary reason are that after the Oslo Accords, it have become obvious that Israel doesn't want peace, at least not a peace which demand that they should give anything up.

Also in my experience there are four kind of "pro-Palestinians" outside Muslims.

1: The obnoxious left, the people for whom this is another cause celebre. Yes they're right but they also happen to be really really irritated, and they don't seem to used a single brain cell to decide why they support the palestinians. Also they're not necessary lefties, but usual they are.
2: The changing middle, these people have to some degree been pro-Israel or at least neutral toward the conflict, but Israel's behaviour have gotten them to lose their respect for Israel, and especially the settlements piss them off.
3: The irritated right, these people don't have any big problem with Israel's general behaviour, they care nothing for Palestinians, but some points of Israel's behaviour irritate or rub them the wrong way them, and the Israeli attitude of "my way or the highway" have made these people choose the highway.

4: The anti-semitic unicorns, some people says these people exist, sometimes even the media says these people exist. But honestly most anti-semites don't seem to have a big problem with Israel murdering Arabs.

[Gustaf]

Um, there is plenty of anti-semites (using the word in the way it has come to be used) around in that debate. Just the other day there was a flurry of it when the leader of opposition in Sweden made a post that expressed qualified support for Israel. The Jews control the media, Hitler was right,etc, etc.

I'll grant most of this comes from Muslims, technically not included in your description, but there is a fair chunk of non-Muslim anti-semitism as well. Especially across Europe.

[Antonio the Sixth]

My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

Simfan, make yourself a favour and block this piece of s***

Uh, what?

I might take his advice if you don't calm down. I mean, really.

What the hell are you talking about?

You're always so worked up about something. I mean, I largely agree with you but I just imagine you shouting all the time.

So I'm angry? I had no idea, thanks for telling me. And anyway, I almost never use full caps (OK, I did with Inks a couple days ago, but this was a cheerful yelling, not an angered one) so I really don't see why you're singling me out.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

Simfan, make yourself a favour and block this piece of s***

Uh, what?

I might take his advice if you don't calm down. I mean, really.

What the hell are you talking about?

You're always so worked up about something. I mean, I largely agree with you but I just imagine you shouting all the time.

So I'm angry? I had no idea, thanks for telling me. And anyway, I almost never use full caps (OK, I did with Inks a couple days ago, but this was a cheerful yelling, not an angered one) so I really don't see why you're singling me out.

You need to calm down.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

American media self-censoring anything that makes The Chosen State look bad.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

And this is basically what it boils down to: Two sides who equally view themselves as victims.

With good reason, of course.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Vaguely interesting piece here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28371966

[Simfan34]

Vaguely interesting piece here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28371966

Indeed, very insightful.

[dead0man]

Indeed.  Hopefully this is the end of Hamas and peace can have a slim chance again.

[MalaspinaGold]

Considering the shifting political demographics on each side, I highly doubt peace is a viable option for some decades.

[Indy Texas]

Also in my experience there are four kind of "pro-Palestinians" outside Muslims.

1: The obnoxious left, the people for whom this is another cause celebre. Yes they're right but they also happen to be really really irritated, and they don't seem to used a single brain cell to decide why they support the palestinians. Also they're not necessary lefties, but usual they are.
2: The changing middle, these people have to some degree been pro-Israel or at least neutral toward the conflict, but Israel's behaviour have gotten them to lose their respect for Israel, and especially the settlements piss them off.
3: The irritated right, these people don't have any big problem with Israel's general behaviour, they care nothing for Palestinians, but some points of Israel's behaviour irritate or rub them the wrong way them, and the Israeli attitude of "my way or the highway" have made these people choose the highway.

4: The anti-semitic unicorns, some people says these people exist, sometimes even the media says these people exist. But honestly most anti-semites don't seem to have a big problem with Israel murdering Arabs.

Muslims as a whole are not "pro-Palestinian." The fact is that a Muslim in Bangladesh or Malaysia doesn't give a damn whether or not the Palestinian people ever have their own nation-state. They just can't abide the idea that "The Jews" would be the ones giving you a ticket to see the Dome of the Rock Mosque.

As for the others....

1: The Left used to be decidedly pro-Israel because prior to 1967, Israel was exactly the sort of place Leftists liked - a quasi-socialist, communitarian state that was pursuing sustainable agriculture and all that. By the end of the 20th century, the old democratic socialist political consensus had evaporated in Israel and the growth of settlements in the West Bank and (at the time) Gaza smacked of neo-imperialism and discrimination.

2: Spot on. Pretty much the "rational center" of the American/Western European electorate.

3: Paleoconservatives and some Paulites strongly dislike Israel and always have. Some of them, I'm sorry to say, actually are somewhat anti-Semitic, though that was more of an issue in the mid-20th century than it is today. Today, the issue is more that Israel seems like the end result of neoconservatism and the Military-Industrial Complex run amok - billions of dollars going to support a country that, because all of its neighbors basically hate it, is always going to exist in some state of war.
As for their views on the Palestinians, some of them are pro-Palestinian because of the sizable Christian minority in the Palestinian community. They view Israel's subjugation of the Palestinians as an affront to the Christian heritage of that area as a result. I've read articles in The American Conservative that focus more or less solely on the plight and exodus of Christians from the region, but seem to be indifferent to what happens to the Muslims there. Some of them don't like Palestinians either because - "Ew, Arabs, how uncivilized" - but they hate Israel/The Jews more so that sentiment wins the day.

4: To the extent that these unicorns are out there, they're going to be found in the Islamist strain of Islam and in number 3 above.

[Famous Mortimer]

People in Malaysia would never even think of Jews, maybe not even know what a Jew was, if not for the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

[dead0man]

4: To the extent that these unicorns are out there, they're going to be found in the Islamist strain of Islam and in number 3 above.

AND it's quite prevalent on the left, especially the European left and others lefties that wish they were European leftists.  I don't know why you guys keep ignoring those specific racists.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

4: To the extent that these unicorns are out there, they're going to be found in the Islamist strain of Islam and in number 3 above.

AND it's quite prevalent on the left, especially the European left and others lefties that wish they were European leftists.  I don't know why you guys keep ignoring those specific racists.

I think there's a lot more racism from the ones who are bulldozing away entire villages to establish settlements while. Zionism is, fundamentally, racism. But for several reasons, the American media is afraid to point out this obvious fact. The amount of influence this little state has on the independent media and foreign policies of the majority of NATO is insane.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Indeed.  Hopefully this is the end of Hamas and peace can have a slim chance again.

Nope.  Even if Hamas is destroyed, another organization will rise to take its place.  Israeli hopes of a making the Palestinians into modern day servile Gibeonites are hopeless.  For there to be any chance of peace, Israel will need to give up its aspirations to keep the Palestinians continually under an Israeli yoke.  Not that doing so has much chance of peace either, but even a slim chance is higher than no chance.  I said higher rather than better because whether it is better depends upon how much risk one thinks Israel would take under either course.