The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[swl]

Now Kerry is saying that he never proposed a ceasefire agreement to Israel and that Bibi lied to please its domestic audience.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Now Kerry is saying that he never proposed a ceasefire agreement to Israel and that Bibi lied to please its domestic audience.

Cite?  Even if it were true, I can't see Kerry wanting to cause even Bibi to lose that much face given the harm it would cause in US-Israeli relations.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Twelve hour truce agreed.

[The Mikado]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

[MalaspinaGold]

Anyone wondering when snowstalker is going to join the legion of brave freedom fighters defending Gaza from the vile, imperialist zionist war machine?

I hope it's soon, so he can do stuff other than post inane comics on atlas.

That's an impressive argument, you must be proud. I forgot that people literally have to go and fight in warzones in order to express an opinion on anything that doesn't currently personally affect them. (Though it is funny that your sarcastic description of Israel is actually a perfectly accurate description of the state).

oakvale, I'm pretty sure you didn't actually read my post. Because if you had read my post, you would have seen that I made it abundantly clear that I DON'T want snowstalker to "prove his words" or any hogwash of the sort, I want him (and certain other pro-Israel posters) to stop turning this topic into a cesspool of trollbait, as he did for the Ukraine thread, and countless others.

As for your second point, it depends what you mean by state. If by state you mean the current Israeli government, then yes, that is an accurate description I might even add a few qualifiers (Machiavellian, psychotic, borderline fascist, etc.) However, if you were referring (as I was) to the state of Israel, then that is as rational as saying America is bloodthirsty, idiotic, and evil because it elected George W. Bush twice. However, True Leftists like Snowstalker have this highly irritating habit of blending the two together.

What Snowstalker does not seem to understand, is that it is not Gaza firing rockets at Israel, but Hamas. And Hamas does what s good for Hamas, not Gaza. I guess what I'm saying is this: either approach this as a confrontation between two dangerous, nationalistic governments, one de jure and the other de facto, or as a confrontation between two somewhat belligerent peoples, who more or less want to stay out of each other's lives.Do not use the murderous tactics of the Likud government to smear the entire Israeli state, and do not use the bloody and unjust sacrifice of hundreds of Palestinian lives to whitewash what is ultimately a self-serving terrorist organization.

And one more thing: I think the naive Westerner who "looked at a couple of websites" is the perfect characterization of Snowstalker himself, as the last time we had a rocket exchange was back in 2011-2012, when Snowstalker was a red avatar, and as we all know, all red avatars are AIPAC puppets.

And finally, I have two questions:
1) Why is Hamas firing rockets if they know the rockets are useless against Iron Dome?
2) Why did Hamas reject the ceasefire

FTR: I think Israel is 98% to blame for the current crisis, and 80% to blame for the long-term crisis."

[MalaspinaGold]

In other news, this may be one of the stupidest things I have read on the Crisis
http://forward.com/articles/201972/gaza-war-unintended-nope-hamas-is-sworn-to-destro/

[Dixie Reborn]

The number of Israeli children killed vs. the number of Palestinian children killed:

More civilian deaths does not necessarily mean moral high ground.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Young Americans changing.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

[MalaspinaGold]

Don't forget Tunisia

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

Freedom House is literally funded by the CIA, in fairness. They also consider our puppet banana republic in Bogota freer than the Bolivarian democracies.

[Indy Texas]

Brazil and Ecuador have withdrawn their ambassadors from Israel.

And Israel totally went there when responding...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[MalaspinaGold]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/26/gaza-rockets-truce-extension_n_5623628.html?1406401927&utm_hp_ref=world

Ceasefire ends.

[Middle-aged Europe]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

Freedom House is literally funded by the CIA, in fairness. They also consider our puppet banana republic in Bogota freer than the Bolivarian democracies.

Fail to see the relevance, since you didn't provide any actual arguments why Tunisia, Libya and Turkey aren't demcoracies... if that's what you were trying to say in the first place.

[Vosem]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

Freedom House is literally funded by the CIA, in fairness. They also consider our puppet banana republic in Bogota freer than the Bolivarian democracies.

Are you seriously suggesting Ecuador/Venezuela are freer than Colombia?

[dead0man]

link (telegraph uk)

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Not sure how accurate it is, or how they expect to deliver the garbage, but there you go.

[MaxQue]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

Freedom House is literally funded by the CIA, in fairness. They also consider our puppet banana republic in Bogota freer than the Bolivarian democracies.

Are you seriously suggesting Ecuador/Venezuela are freer than Colombia?

I would consider Ecuador and Colombia pretty much equal. There is significant issues in Colombia (FARC, far-right paramilitaries, vote rigging in areas controlled by them, President being able to fire any elected mayor for any reason and replace it by whoever he wants...)

[Vosem]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

Freedom House is literally funded by the CIA, in fairness. They also consider our puppet banana republic in Bogota freer than the Bolivarian democracies.

Are you seriously suggesting Ecuador/Venezuela are freer than Colombia?

I would consider Ecuador and Colombia pretty much equal. There is significant issues in Colombia (FARC, far-right paramilitaries, vote rigging in areas controlled by them, President being able to fire any elected mayor for any reason and replace it by whoever he wants...)

I would agree that areas in Colombia that are under FARC control are very not free, which drags the country down, but it seems odd to me to compare a country where governments can be and are sometimes defeated and replaced by democratic means (Colombia) with a country that has a dictator who survived a coup attempt in 2010 and has imprisoned journalists (Ecuador) and say the latter is freer. I guess it can depend on how you count areas that are part of the country on paper but in practice are outside of the government's control.

[MaxQue]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

Freedom House is literally funded by the CIA, in fairness. They also consider our puppet banana republic in Bogota freer than the Bolivarian democracies.

Are you seriously suggesting Ecuador/Venezuela are freer than Colombia?

I would consider Ecuador and Colombia pretty much equal. There is significant issues in Colombia (FARC, far-right paramilitaries, vote rigging in areas controlled by them, President being able to fire any elected mayor for any reason and replace it by whoever he wants...)

I would agree that areas in Colombia that are under FARC control are very not free, which drags the country down, but it seems odd to me to compare a country where governments can be and are sometimes defeated and replaced by democratic means (Colombia) with a country that has a dictator who survived a coup attempt in 2010 and has imprisoned journalists (Ecuador) and say the latter is freer. I guess it can depend on how you count areas that are part of the country on paper but in practice are outside of the government's control.

Dictator is a strong word for Correa. I would personally go for autocrat. Elections are still reasonably fair (Correa isn't losing because he is popular), despite various troubling issues about journalists, free press and human rights.

In Colombia, FARC doesn't control much land anymore (and most of it is empty jungle), I would argue than the far-right paramilitaries are more of an issue.

In short, in Ecuador, the issue is government, in Colombia, that's mostly FARC and far-right militias (but I must stress the unwillingess of the government to tackle the far-right militias). And I don't see how appointing a replacement mayor is democratic.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

Freedom House is literally funded by the CIA, in fairness. They also consider our puppet banana republic in Bogota freer than the Bolivarian democracies.

Are you seriously suggesting Ecuador/Venezuela are freer than Colombia?

Ecuador undeniably is, at least. At least the Quito doesn't persecute trade unions and sanction far-right death squads funded by Coca-Cola. It's also important to remember how entrenched and anti-government the private media in Ecuador is--think Fox News to the tenth power.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

The number of Israeli children killed vs. the number of Palestinian children killed:

[picture]

But remember, one Israeli is worth at least hundreds of Palestinians according to the media!

[Sbane]

This whole tragedy is so predictable. Zionists continuing their colonization of Palestine and accelerating it through the building of settlements leading to more desperation on the Palestinian side. Hapless leaders in Palestine not being able to even come into an agreement amongst themselves, let alone being able to negotiate with Israel. Stupid terrorists taking the opportunity to launch rockets they know will not reach their targets due to the Iron Dome. Israel, despite possessing the Iron dome, invades Gaza knowing it will cause massive civilian casualties, despite claiming they care about civilian casualties. And of course self righteous Americans pretending like Israel is in the right even though they would violently destroy anyone who tries to take their land. I really want Native Americans to go back and just randomly take over houses built on top of their ancestral land. I hope it happens to dead0man just to see his reaction. I am sure he will be very understanding.

[Gustaf]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Lebanon is arguably a democracy for the last few years, but during the time that line became common knowledge they weren't. The same goes for other examples mentioned in this thread. (and Turkey...eh, did people follow their last election? I have a friend who was a poll worker there and I know a guy who did some analysis on it. I really don't buy that they are )

[Famous Mortimer]

No one has ever questioned the results of Turkish elections. Even the opposition doesn't claim elections are rigged.

[Bull Moose Base]

This whole tragedy is so predictable. Zionists continuing their colonization of Palestine and accelerating it through the building of settlements leading to more desperation on the Palestinian side. Hapless leaders in Palestine not being able to even come into an agreement amongst themselves, let alone being able to negotiate with Israel. Stupid terrorists taking the opportunity to launch rockets they know will not reach their targets due to the Iron Dome. Israel, despite possessing the Iron dome, invades Gaza knowing it will cause massive civilian casualties, despite claiming they care about civilian casualties. And of course self righteous Americans pretending like Israel is in the right even though they would violently destroy anyone who tries to take their land. I really want Native Americans to go back and just randomly take over houses built on top of their ancestral land. I hope it happens to dead0man just to see his reaction. I am sure he will be very understanding.

Who needs hypothetical hypocrisy when you can find some Americans complaining about Israeli colonialism while, you know, living in and loving America? (Or Europeans or Muslims or whatever other group complains about it.) If your point is just that trying to revert back to some past map, or trying to change a map in general, is a nightmare for all, yeah, I think you'll find most people agree. But there are a lot of Palestinians and Israelis who suffer that same delusion. There are many other who don't, they just don't have enough power to stop the others.