The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html

(apologize for Huffington Post)

[Gustaf]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html

(apologize for Huffington Post)

That's a pretty poor article.

Statement 1: Ok, everyone knows they do things like blockade Gaza, give them electricity, etc. That isn't the same as occupation though which is the point.

Statement 2: Under his definition everyone wants a ceasefire. Saying Hamas wants a ceasefire if their conditions are met is an empty statement.

Statement 3: He does not mention a single fact about Israel deliberately targeting civilians.

That's honestly as far as I got before I gave up on it.

Note, I'm not saying some of this aren't legitimate debate points to bring up. But it's not "using facts to debunk myths". I hate it when people abuse that kind of terminology to express mere viewpoints.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The ceasefire game has started to get blackly funny.

[Silent Hunter]

One can generally predict a tone of an article on this just by someone's name...

[Simfan34]

The ceasefire game has started to get blackly funny.

Taking this whole thing as one big dark joke is perhaps the only way to stay sane and follow it.

[dead0man]

One can generally predict a tone of an article on this just by someone's name...

RACIST!

[Sbane]

One can generally predict a tone of an article on this just by someone's name...

RACIST!

If someone said this about a Jewish writer.....

[Velasco]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html

(apologize for Huffington Post)

Dahiya doctrine?

Aside it debunks the Israel government's propaganda or not (which claims become increasingly indefensible), the article has some interesting links. For example, a quite understandavle article by Nathan Trall in the NYT (should I apologise for linking that agent of zionist imperialism?).

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/opinion/gaza-and-israel-the-road-to-war-paved-by-the-west.html?_r=1

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[Silent Hunter]

One can generally predict a tone of an article on this just by someone's name...

RACIST!

If someone said this about a Jewish writer.....

My apologies - that was an excessive generalisation.

[Famous Mortimer]

I don't think that's an honest assessment of the unity government. Fatah is not in THAT strong of a position. Hamas still regularly out polls them.

[dead0man]

One can generally predict a tone of an article on this just by someone's name...

RACIST!

If someone said this about a Jewish writer.....

My apologies - that was an excessive generalisation.

FTR, I was joking.

[Velasco]

I don't think that's an honest assessment of the unity government. Fatah is not in THAT strong of a position. Hamas still regularly out polls them.

I'm afraid you didn't get the point. Hamas is not weak because Fatah is in a strong position, far from it. The article explains that the unity government "was created largely because Hamas' desperation and isolation" (underlined), which is due to an unfavourable international context and has little to do with election polls. Anyway, if we were before the contingency of an election, the Israeli and Egyptian governments and the so-called 'international community' would be campaigning for Hamas. Quoting the article again:

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120 dead yesterday (1150 since the beginning, 3/4 civilians, 215 children); the only power station destroyed in Gaza. Meanwhile, Kerry states "concern" again. It's a wonderful world.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Here's a post from someone whose wife was almost killed by Hamas. He opposes what Israel is doing.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/07/31/1317947/-12-Years-Ago-Today-Hamas-Tried-to-Kill-My-Wife-I-m-Marking-that-Day-by-Opposing-the-Gaza-War

[Filuwaúrdjan]

...and another truce.

[Indy Texas]

ISIS is now threatening to get involved in the conflict.

If that happens, you would basically have the beginning of World War III.

Time for Israel and Hamas to get their sh!t together.

[Foucaulf]

ISIS is now threatening to get involved in the conflict.

If that happens, you would basically have the beginning of World War III.

Time for Israel and Hamas to get their sh!t together.

Don't feed the doomsayers. The Second Congo War had more interlocking alliances than this.

There's a bit more to be said about media representation of this conflict: Graun article about disproportionate screentime to Israeli officials here, Atlantic article about I/P sucking up public interest here. I will say that public protest is a very specific measure of dissent, something that I think has a high decay rate. The theory is that protests will likely be ineffective, so once people realize that they move on again. It could also be that the fervour surrounding I/P is maintained by Western nations acting so slowly on it; since western nations blockaded Syria so quickly, there is not much to demand further absent arms funnelling.

[H. Ross Peron]

...And the cease-fire collapses:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/02/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-conflict.html

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[Filuwaúrdjan]

Oh sh!t.

[ingemann]

Oh sh!t.

I think it was really to expected, the operation is expensive for Israel so the faster they can end it, the better for them. While Hamas have a interest in Israel continuing their killing of Palestinian civilians, as it's their only way to get USA (and to lesser extent Europe) to pressure Israel to make a ceasefire, which include an end to the blockade of Gaza. The question are how many Palestinian civilians need to die, before it become unacceptable in USA and Europe.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/whoa-times-of-israel-op-ed-advocates-genocide-against-gazans/

[Brittain33]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/whoa-times-of-israel-op-ed-advocates-genocide-against-gazans/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/yochanan-gordon-genocide-blog-remove

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/whoa-times-of-israel-op-ed-advocates-genocide-against-gazans/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/yochanan-gordon-genocide-blog-remove

This is what happens when you let outsiders who have never been remotely close to a conflict opine on said conflict.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The author also posted some bullsh**t apology saying that he "never never intended to call to harm any people".

http://5tjt.com/apology-from-yochanan-gordon/

At least he should have been honest enough to admit that for all intents and purposes he's esentially a Nazi.


Meanwile, the Times of Israel has another potential pro-genocide editorial online, stating:

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http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/1-samuel-1518/#ixzz39AIQIcls

[Simfan34]

What's the big deal? He's a POW.

I'll admit I don't get the point of this Gaza campaign anymore. They have the Iron Dome to protect them from the rockets, what's the utility of attacking Gaza, then? It only harms their standing further. Although I doubt it would change anyone's mind.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Funny that the Western media has pasted the capture of one of their guys as the top story while burying the continued mass civilian casualties under it.