The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[Indy Texas]

And here we have a Palestinian girl whose home was demolished by Israel trying to retrieve her books from inside. Oh well, she's clearly a terrorist and those books are probably copies of the Koran and Mein Kampf. There was no other option.

[Simfan34]

Your trolling is low-grade. What's wrong with a Koran?

[MaxQue]

Your trolling is low-grade. What's wrong with a Koran?

It's not a Tanakh.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I think there's a habit of judging Israel's actions by the standards of a western democracy, while we measure Hamas by the standards of Islamic extremists.

By the standards of a western democracy, Israel's current actions are horrible and disgusting. As far as Islamic extremists go, there are much worse groups than Hamas though (ISIS, Taliban, al-Qaeda).

That shouldn't blur the fact that at the end of the day Israel is still a western democracy and Hamas are still Islamic extremists. However, we must able to call Israel out on their bullsh**t, without letting Hamas off the hook in the same instance.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Israeli politics has really been a cesspool since a right-winger assassinated the last decent prime minister.

[dead0man]

By the standards of a western democracy, Israel's current actions are horrible and disgusting.

I totally don't understand how this is just a "known" thing.  How do you think a European country would act in the same situation?  Do you guys REALLY think Germany would send an angry letter if missiles were launched at their civilians every few days (and that's during the "cold" part of the conflict)?  Or if there were tunnels built (that again cost many millions and use child slave labor to construct where hundreds have died) for the sole purpose of kidnapping/murdering your civilians?  What action(s) have Western democracies done to make people think they wouldn't take action in such a scenario.

[Silent Hunter]

By the standards of a western democracy, Israel's current actions are horrible and disgusting.

I totally don't understand how this is just a "known" thing.  How do you think a European country would act in the same situation?  Do you guys REALLY think Germany would send an angry letter if missiles were launched at their civilians every few days (and that's during the "cold" part of the conflict)?  Or if there were tunnels built (that again cost many millions and use child slave labor to construct where hundreds have died) for the sole purpose of kidnapping/murdering your civilians?  What action(s) have Western democracies done to make people think they wouldn't take action in such a scenario.

Indeed, we already have an example of what happens when a European country gets ballistic missiles targeted at its cities... it's called the Second World War.

[Blue3]

Netanyahu:
1. I will never let a two-state solution happen
2. I will never let Israel become a binational state
3. I will never give up any land west of the Jordan River

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/

[Middle-aged Europe]

By the standards of a western democracy, Israel's current actions are horrible and disgusting.

I totally don't understand how this is just a "known" thing.  How do you think a European country would act in the same situation?  Do you guys REALLY think Germany would send an angry letter if missiles were launched at their civilians every few days (and that's during the "cold" part of the conflict)?  Or if there were tunnels built (that again cost many millions and use child slave labor to construct where hundreds have died) for the sole purpose of kidnapping/murdering your civilians?  What action(s) have Western democracies done to make people think they wouldn't take action in such a scenario.

I don't deny that a European country could react in a similarly disgusting manner. It's probably more likely than not.

[dead0man]

Then maybe by the standards of a western democracy, Israel's current actions are not horrible and disgusting, maybe they are normal?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Perhaps we should stop assuming that "western democracy" is inherently good, then?

[JohnCA246]

Israelis should do what European powers did, and stop occupying territory. That is not to condone terrorism against French Algerians or Israeli civilians. I'm just saying there is a precedence for taking the high road and leaving, rather than perpetually fighting to hold onto occupied territory.

By the standards of a western democracy, Israel's current actions are horrible and disgusting.

I totally don't understand how this is just a "known" thing.  How do you think a European country would act in the same situation?  Do you guys REALLY think Germany would send an angry letter if missiles were launched at their civilians every few days (and that's during the "cold" part of the conflict)?  Or if there were tunnels built (that again cost many millions and use child slave labor to construct where hundreds have died) for the sole purpose of kidnapping/murdering your civilians?  What action(s) have Western democracies done to make people think they wouldn't take action in such a scenario.

I don't deny that a European country could react in a similarly disgusting manner. It's probably more likely than not.

[bgwah]

By the standards of a western democracy, Israel's current actions are horrible and disgusting.

I totally don't understand how this is just a "known" thing.  How do you think a European country would act in the same situation?  Do you guys REALLY think Germany would send an angry letter if missiles were launched at their civilians every few days (and that's during the "cold" part of the conflict)?  Or if there were tunnels built (that again cost many millions and use child slave labor to construct where hundreds have died) for the sole purpose of kidnapping/murdering your civilians?  What action(s) have Western democracies done to make people think they wouldn't take action in such a scenario.

Why would someone be firing missiles at Germany?

[swl]

By the standards of a western democracy, Israel's current actions are horrible and disgusting.

I totally don't understand how this is just a "known" thing.  How do you think a European country would act in the same situation?

Leave the colonies, like the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain or Portugal did after 1945?

[dead0man]

I agree that the settlements should be stopped and in many places, rolled back, but that's not why Hamas is currently shooting rockets.

[swl]

So what is all this conflict about if not two peoples fighting for the same land?

[swl]

And here we have a Palestinian girl whose home was demolished by Israel trying to retrieve her books from inside. Oh well, she's clearly a terrorist and those books are probably copies of the Koran and Mein Kampf. There was no other option.

And meanwhile, this is what Israel calls a terror attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfi0xYfiTtM#t=143

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Tractor-hits-bus-injuring-2-in-suspected-terror-attack-in-Jerusalem-369993

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

So what is all this conflict about if not two peoples fighting for the same land?

It is. It's not about the settlements, because Hamas doesn't acknowledge any of Israel as legitimate. They have never offered to agree to a two-state solution. Nothing but the Palestinian flag flying over a Jew-free Tel Aviv is acceptable to them.

[swl]

They have never offered to agree to a two-state solution. Nothing but the Palestinian flag flying over a Jew-free Tel Aviv is acceptable to them.

Have they even been formally asked about it? And even if they reject the idea, it is only words while Israel's acts during the last decades are proving that they do not agree with a two-states solution either.

[dead0man]

They have never offered to agree to a two-state solution. Nothing but the Palestinian flag flying over a Jew-free Tel Aviv is acceptable to them.

Have they even been formally asked about it?

Of course they have.  A million times.  Sometimes one of them will even say it's possible before quickly being corrected by a higher up.

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It's sad that you know so much about Israel's actions this past decade but don't know if Hamas has been asked about a 2 state solution.  Not surprising, but certainly sad.

[swl]

Prove it. I am curious to know when and where the discussions took place. I thought Hamas was a terrorist organization no one wants to talk with?

It's sad that you know so much about Israel's actions this past decade but don't know if Hamas has been asked about a 2 state solution.  Not surprising, but certainly sad.

I meant decades, in plural.

[MaxQue]

Hamas being wrong doesn't mean than Israel is right.

[dead0man]

Prove it. I am curious to know when and where the discussions took place. I thought Hamas was a terrorist organization no one wants to talk with?

google search results
random NY Times link from 2011

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Notice that part at the end?  Even they admit (with the silence) that the violence will continue even if Israel gives into their unreasonable demands.

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I meant decades, in plural.
[/quote]My apologies for misreading, makes you look even worse though.  You know about decades worth of Israeli actions, but don't know that Hamas talks to other people or that the 2 state solution has been brought up to them before.

[Famous Mortimer]

Netanyahu:
1. I will never let a two-state solution happen
2. I will never let Israel become a binational state
3. I will never give up any land west of the Jordan River

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/

Netanyahu didn't say any of those things. That article is massively dumb.

He just said that any Palestinian state would have to be demilitarized. He's always said that.

The thing about a binational state is right though.

[MaxQue]

Netanyahu:
1. I will never let a two-state solution happen
2. I will never let Israel become a binational state
3. I will never give up any land west of the Jordan River

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/

Netanyahu didn't say any of those things. That article is massively dumb.

He just said that any Palestinian state would have to be demilitarized. He's always said that.

Well, that's totally unacceptable. Would any sane country would accept being demilitatized while it has an hostile country on its border?