The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[Cassius]

Yes Snowstalker. Civilians die in war. An unpleasant and unfortunate fact, but a fact nonetheless. Its something that happens in every war; for instance, in the Second World War, we on the Allied side, both in the West and the East, must have killed a fair number of civilians ourselves. In the case of the Soviets, some of that was deliberate, one thing we can definitely say that the IDF does not do. Indeed, the IDF actually goes out of its way to try and limit civilian casualties; an onerous task that is not helped by Hamas making a habit of using its own 'countrymen' as human shields. The Israelis utilise a variety of methods to do this; including warning civilians of impending bombardment (through the use of leaflet drops and 'scare' bombs), as well as doing its best to garner adequate intelligence on the targets that may be bombed. The fact is, this doesn't always work. Also, your description of these Israelis as 'settlers' is rather misleading, given that this in fact is the IDF that is undertaking these bombardments. Indeed, the only free lance killers that I can observe are Hamas themselves.

[Cassius]

Its not actually strictly correct that the Israeli blockade of Gaza prompted Hamas rocket attacks; in fact, it was the other way around. When the Israelis (then under the auspices of Ariel Sharon) withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005, they signed an agreement with the PA allowing for full Palestinian control over their own borders. Unfortunately, when Hamas drove Fatah out of the Gaza Strip in 2007, the former began using it as a base to attack Israel. This directly caused the blockade of Gaza (keep in mind as well that this blockade is supported by the Egyptians as well), although it should be pointed out that the Israelis do try to allow food and humanitarian aid to be imported (not always successfully though), whilst attempting to keep fresh weapons out of the hands of Hamas. This blockade has been determined as legal by the UN (with regards to 2011's Palmer Report). I think this idea that Israel is primarily at fault when it comes to these rocket attacks is highly misleading.

[Cassius]

Of course, if one wants villains for this piece, on has to look no further than Hamas. This has already been mentioned several times in this thread, but I'll bring it up again; there are no Israeli settlements in Gaza. Not one. Those are located in the West Bank. You may say 'but there are still settlments in Palestine'. That is quite correct of course, but the ironic thing is that the vast majority of terrorist attacks against Israel are being launched, not from the West Bank, but from Gaza, so the settlements justification of terrorism is somewhat shaky. Now, that can be rebutted by saying 'well, its due to the Israeli blockade of Gaza'. That has a more solid foundation. However, to return to the original point of this statement, that blockade is entirely down to the actions of Hamas. The Israeli's haven't simply initiated a large scale blockade on a whim; no, it exists to try and make it more difficult for Hamas to engage in acts of terror. If Hamas disarmed, then the blockade would cease. But no, disarmament would not suit Hamas' ultimate objectives at all; these are, of course, the destruction of Fatah, control over the entirety of Palestine and in due course the destruction of the state of Israel. These are not the objectives of all Palestinians of course; if they were, then Hamas would not need to engage in violence against other Palestinians.

It is Hamas that is to blame for the deaths of Palestinian civilians in Gaza. Through its ceaseless provocation of the Israeli government through terrorist attacks and kidnappings, it constantly puts the lives of Palestinian civilians in danger, a danger magnified tenfold by its constant use of them as human shields, as well Hamas' incitement of Palestinian civilians to put themselves in harms way (one of their spokesman stated that they had a policy of 'people confronting Israeli warplanes with their bare chests'). It is clear that, to them, the civilians of the Gaza strip are mere 'human resources', do be thrown into the meat grinder of their war on Israel. What is more, it is entirely futile, given that there is no way that Hamas can militarily defeat Israel by itself. Nor can it hope for the international 'community' to come to its aid, since they appear to have pissed off most of their potential supporters in the Arab world, whilst the West, God willing, will never help such scum as those who make up the body of Hamas' leadership. So Hamas is an organisation pursuing an impossible goal, one leading to the deaths of many Palestinians and Israelis. And they probably won't stop until they are physically eradicated.

In short, Hamas are pretty clearly the 'villains' of this story.