The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

There is some shameful sh**t in this thread

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Do we really need to say it...

No, Non-Israeli Jews or synagogues are not acceptable targets not even for peaceful demonstration, as they have no direct influence on Israeli policy. Israeli abroad are not legitimate targets either for violent acts and even in Israel/Palestinia, it's not legitimate to go after Israeli civilians as targets either (collatoral damage can be discussed).

Even if we only see it from a purely pragmatic POV and not a moral one, the lesson from the Second Intifada and the Israeli invasions and bombings of Gaza, the killing of civilians have not resulted in breaking either sides will to fight.

Yes, you really do need to say it.  One of my biggest criticisms of so-called Palestinian rights activists, regardless of whether or not they're Palestinian, is that while they are always quick to try to paint the Israeli army (which does not target civilians even if some have been unintentionally killed by them) as some sort of bloodthirsty killing machine, they hardly ever criticize the actions of terrorist groups like Hamas which deliberately target civilians and even use their fellow Palestinians as human shields.  And when they do, it is almost always after being called-out on the matter in public/shamed into doing so.  Is the Israeli government's response always perfect?  Of course not and they are in the wrong on some issues, such as the settlements.  Is there anything even remotely resembling a shred of equivalency between Israel's democratic government defending the Israeli people and the terrorism and butchery of groups like Hamas?  No, and it is an insult to the innocent victims on both sides when people like BRTD suggest that there is.  It is like comparing the U.S. to Al-Qaeda.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

When on Earth did I ever express support for Hamas, refuse to condemn them or imply they were morally equivalent to Israel?

Also don't see anything remotely offensive about that tweet.

You didn't quite imply that they were morally equivalent to Israel, but the bolded part of this post was in that general ballpark, although in fairness to you, as I look back at the post it seems like I may have misinterpreted what your post.

For the record I was referring only to synogagues that promote unconditional support for Israel. That's equivalent to protesting a mosque that expresses support for suicide bombers, which is completely legitimate. Protesting all synogagues over Israel or all mosques over terrorism isn't.

And yes I doubt the protestors are making such a distinction. But violent or non-violent they still make up a fringe minority. Ray seems to think a majority of Europeans are anti-Semites.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

When on Earth did I ever express support for Hamas, refuse to condemn them or imply they were morally equivalent to Israel?

Also don't see anything remotely offensive about that tweet.

You didn't quite imply that they were morally equivalent to Israel, but the bolded part of this post was in that general ballpark, although in fairness to you, as I look back at the post it seems like I may have misinterpreted what your post.

For the record I was referring only to synogagues that promote unconditional support for Israel. That's equivalent to protesting a mosque that expresses support for suicide bombers, which is completely legitimate. Protesting all synogagues over Israel or all mosques over terrorism isn't.

And yes I doubt the protestors are making such a distinction. But violent or non-violent they still make up a fringe minority. Ray seems to think a majority of Europeans are anti-Semites.

It was in response to the point that protesting synagogues is like protesting mosques after Islamist terrorist attacks. The point was that protesting a synagogue of a Kahanist or Dov Hikind-esque bent is more comparable to protesting a mosque that actually promotes suicide bombings and speaks out in favor of terrorists. That's fair game and I fail to see how either is any different than protesting anti-gay churches.

Are the protestors in question making this distinction? Probably not. And the hate crimes are also quite horrifying. But they make up clearly a very small fringe in any country, and Ray's claims that a "pogrom" is about to start is absurd fearmongering.

Ah, if you meant Kahanist and Hikindesque synagogues , fair enough.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Israel's actions in the Gaza strip aren't surprising or shocking in the least. They have a clear cut casus belli and Hamas should be punished for its actions. That isn't why this particular conflict is so troubling: Netanyahu is using the threat of Hamas' tunnels as a justification for formally withdrawing his (misleading)  public support of a two state solution and this comes as a Naftali Bennet is pushing for a de facto annextion of the West Bank. Something is rotten in Israel.

I'm an "anti-Zionist" because I am concerned for Jews who have no interest in living in an Israel that treats them as gentile-loving traitors.  Israel legitimizes anti-semitism as a valid worldview every time it defends its settlements. Every time it displays ultra-jingoistic behavior by bombing Gaza hospitals, imprisoning those who work for NGOs and bullying the US, it makes the world a much darker place for Jews.

So you consider anti-semitism a valid and legitimate lens through which to look at the world?  Wow...

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Israel's actions in the Gaza strip aren't surprising or shocking in the least. They have a clear cut casus belli and Hamas should be punished for its actions. That isn't why this particular conflict is so troubling: Netanyahu is using the threat of Hamas' tunnels as a justification for formally withdrawing his (misleading)  public support of a two state solution and this comes as a Naftali Bennet is pushing for a de facto annextion of the West Bank. Something is rotten in Israel.

I'm an "anti-Zionist" because I am concerned for Jews who have no interest in living in an Israel that treats them as gentile-loving traitors.  Israel legitimizes anti-semitism as a valid worldview every time it defends its settlements. Every time it displays ultra-jingoistic behavior by bombing Gaza hospitals, imprisoning those who work for NGOs and bullying the US, it makes the world a much darker place for Jews.

So you consider anti-semitism a valid and legitimate lens through which to look at the world?  Wow...

Anti-semitism is evil. If you're serious about combating it, it's of the utmost importance to consider what factors nurture anti-semitism. Israel's actions have unquestionably turned millions towards anti-semitic beliefs.

I don't agree, but as long as you weren't justifying anti-semitism or anything like that, we're good. 

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

As if anyone believes Snowstalker gives two sh!ts about not trivializing the Holocaust.  What's wrong, Snowstalker?  Did comparing Inks to Hitler get old?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

So you're saying that if Hamas hadn't broken the first ceasefire Israel would have still killed a thousand Palestinians?  That's is complete bull spit and if you honestly believe that I don't know why I'm wasting my time.

Well, you ARE wasting your time.

Agreed.

Hence, relax and stop bothering commenting on Israel affairs. None, except of those already convinced, will pay much attention to you anyway - unless, that is, you decide to approach it very differently.

Good to know you don't pay much attention to anything that doesn't conform to your pre-existing views.  At least you admit it  Now the next step is to start acknowledging the existance facts that don't support your point of view.  I'm sure you'll get the hang of it someday  Who knows, you might even manage to develop a shred of objectivity!