The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Please do not post that idiot's comics here. We're above that.

In other news, the colonists continue to murder children en masse. And the Israeli left is being suppressed by an alliance of cops and brownshirts.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/a-plague-on-one-house/

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

American media self-censoring anything that makes The Chosen State look bad.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

4: To the extent that these unicorns are out there, they're going to be found in the Islamist strain of Islam and in number 3 above.

AND it's quite prevalent on the left, especially the European left and others lefties that wish they were European leftists.  I don't know why you guys keep ignoring those specific racists.

I think there's a lot more racism from the ones who are bulldozing away entire villages to establish settlements while. Zionism is, fundamentally, racism. But for several reasons, the American media is afraid to point out this obvious fact. The amount of influence this little state has on the independent media and foreign policies of the majority of NATO is insane.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

4: To the extent that these unicorns are out there, they're going to be found in the Islamist strain of Islam and in number 3 above.

AND it's quite prevalent on the left, especially the European left and others lefties that wish they were European leftists.  I don't know why you guys keep ignoring those specific racists.

I think there's a lot more racism from the ones who are bulldozing away entire villages to establish settlements while. Zionism is, fundamentally, racism. But for several reasons, the American media is afraid to point out this obvious fact. The amount of influence this little state has on the independent media and foreign policies of the majority of NATO is insane.

Jews and their houses of worship are being laid siege to all across Europe in "retaliation". If you're not concerned with that, then you are the problem.

Also, "Zionism is racism" is inherently hate speech. It's a bunch of white people with their own poorly defined countries saying that the only group in the world not allowed to have their own country is the one they tried to exterminate.

It's amazing how quickly Israel's running dogs resort to calling criticism "hate speech" or "anti-semitism". A people that consisted entirely of diaspora couldn't have formed their own country without either displacing a large amount of people or populating a completely uninhabited area (there's a reason why there were proposals to have Israel in Alaska, Siberia, and the Australian Outback).

Deadman continues to be hilarious as usual. Keep it up, buddy.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

None of those were legitimately offered. They were "on the table" and "under discussion" while the Jews remaining in Europe were being butchered in a slow-motion Holocaust by people who weren't happy about the Axis loss, or being kept in filthy refugee camps.

And?

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Yes, of course. They were brought up due to having fewer people that could be displaced than Palestine (or the original proposal, Uganda, which is a hilariously awful idea).

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The "element" in question being those who oppose mass displacement to make room for outside colonizers? You seem to be defining "anti-Semitic" as "someone who doesn't believe that the Palestinian nation should be forced by outside powers to bend over for Israel."

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

The number of Israeli children killed vs. the number of Palestinian children killed:

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

More astounding media bias:

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

"Jews are being targeted all across Europe"

"*world's smallest violin image*"

This thread has been a fascinating exercise in the dropping of pretenses, as well as a wonderful justification of Israel's existence and its nuclear program.

How do you feel about their assistance in giving South Africa the bomb?

For the record, the modern European far-right's targeting of Jews is awful, but you using it to excuse the horrors in Gaza is far more sickening.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

"Jews are being targeted all across Europe"

"*world's smallest violin image*"

This thread has been a fascinating exercise in the dropping of pretenses, as well as a wonderful justification of Israel's existence and its nuclear program.

How many Jews have been killed the last 10 years in Europe, I'm going to guess with your great knowledge about Europe you can answer that.

As for nuclear arms, I don't care one way or another, the whole Samson Option is a empty threat, quite useful as one, but still empty.

How many will it take for you to care?

Ray, I'm trying very hard to understand how a synagogue in Europe getting vandalized has anything to do with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

You seem to operate by some bizarre calculus where the various wrongs done to Jews in Europe throughout history gives the State of Israel the right to heap suffering and indignation specifically on Palestinians in the present day

This is exactly the mindset of Israel apologists.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Depends on the synagogue in question of course. I'm sure there's many Reform ones that aren't comfortable with many of Israel's actions, but there are many others that are pretty Likudnik in their outlook, and protesting one of those isn't anti-Semitic. The Israeli embassy obviously is a more relevant thing to protest, but unless you live in the capital of the city that's not an option.

It's kind of like protesting a church that's quite outspoken against homosexuality and gay marriage. That's fair game. Protesting just some random church without even looking up their position on gay marriage on the other hand would be dumb.

Molotov cocktails have been thrown at synagogues. This is no longer a protest, this is the opening stage of a pogrom.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/07/20/propalestinian_youth_attack_two_synagogues_in_paris_suburbs.html

A fairly awful thing to do, but torching a synagogue somehow doesn't seem as bad as maintaining an open air prison to use as a shooting gallery every couple of years.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Depends on the synagogue in question of course. I'm sure there's many Reform ones that aren't comfortable with many of Israel's actions, but there are many others that are pretty Likudnik in their outlook, and protesting one of those isn't anti-Semitic. The Israeli embassy obviously is a more relevant thing to protest, but unless you live in the capital of the city that's not an option.

It's kind of like protesting a church that's quite outspoken against homosexuality and gay marriage. That's fair game. Protesting just some random church without even looking up their position on gay marriage on the other hand would be dumb.

Molotov cocktails have been thrown at synagogues. This is no longer a protest, this is the opening stage of a pogrom.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/07/20/propalestinian_youth_attack_two_synagogues_in_paris_suburbs.html

A fairly awful thing to do, but torching a synagogue somehow doesn't seem as bad as maintaining an open air prison to use as a shooting gallery every couple of years.

And somehow you've failed to notice that the one shouldn't have anything to do with the other. The Jewish people going to the synagogue in Paris have nothing to do with Israel or its government's policies.

Of course, these are (thankfully) isolated incidents and claiming Jews suffer widespread persecution in Europe is absurd, but isolated as they may be, they are clearly worthy of our condemnation.

I'm aware they're not directly connected; Ray Goldfield is the one arguing they are (and implying that the former is worse).

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/statuses/491146412009070592

Stay classy Tel Aviv.

LOL

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/07/21/netanyahus-telegenically-dead-comment-original/

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

You can do better than literally parroting IDF propaganda.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

"Good guys" and "bad guys"? What are you, eight?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

This would be a fine time for a "whiff of grapeshot".

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Young Americans changing.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

Freedom House is literally funded by the CIA, in fairness. They also consider our puppet banana republic in Bogota freer than the Bolivarian democracies.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Freedom House doesn't consider Lebanon a democracy. However Libya and Turkey are in the general region, and are considered democracies.

Freedom House is literally funded by the CIA, in fairness. They also consider our puppet banana republic in Bogota freer than the Bolivarian democracies.

Are you seriously suggesting Ecuador/Venezuela are freer than Colombia?

Ecuador undeniably is, at least. At least the Quito doesn't persecute trade unions and sanction far-right death squads funded by Coca-Cola. It's also important to remember how entrenched and anti-government the private media in Ecuador is--think Fox News to the tenth power.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html

(apologize for Huffington Post)

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/whoa-times-of-israel-op-ed-advocates-genocide-against-gazans/

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Funny that the Western media has pasted the capture of one of their guys as the top story while burying the continued mass civilian casualties under it.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Funny that the Western media has pasted the capture of one of their guys as the top story while burying the continued mass civilian casualties under it.

Funny that certain people to overlook how 1,700 people have died in Syria in the past week. Like many murders in this country, killings of the dispossessed only seem to arouse their attention when "privileged" groups are doing the killing.

1. There is, as you mentioned, an enormous power disparity between Israel and Gaza; one side is almost entirely killing soldiers while the other is primarily killing civilians; Assad and the rebels (who are now almost entirely Islamists; the moderates we were backing are more or less dead) have been slaughtering each other as well as many civilians. And in Israel, human interest stories like cats and owls that were hit by rockets get more traffic than articles about the slaughter in Gaza.

2. The Syrian conflict is an internal one (unless you lump it in with the Iraqi violence, which you probably should); this is an aggressive war between two states.

3. The lack of reporting on Syria is because the media has stopped trying to drum up a US intervention there on behalf of the rebels as they were last fall; if anything, the US is tacitly supporting Assad now by the proposed strikes on ISIS targets.