The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread

[Gustaf]

Um, there is plenty of anti-semites (using the word in the way it has come to be used) around in that debate. Just the other day there was a flurry of it when the leader of opposition in Sweden made a post that expressed qualified support for Israel. The Jews control the media, Hitler was right,etc, etc.

I'll grant most of this comes from Muslims, technically not included in your description, but there is a fair chunk of non-Muslim anti-semitism as well. Especially across Europe.

[Gustaf]

Are some people not aware of the fairly severe persecution of Jewish people across Europe from groups of Muslim fundamentalists? As Jewish people fled Sweden's third city the city Mayor stated that they should make Israel behave better if they wanted to be able to live safely in the city. Just to give an example of what I suspect Ray was alluding to.

[Gustaf]

Are some people not aware of the fairly severe persecution of Jewish people across Europe from groups of Muslim fundamentalists? As Jewish people fled Sweden's third city the city Mayor stated that they should make Israel behave better if they wanted to be able to live safely in the city. Just to give an example of what I suspect Ray was alluding to.

Well, I remember similar warnings given to Americans in Europe at the beginning of Irak War. It's constant in history than countries with unpopular foreign policies is having an effect on the life of people linked to them in other countries.

It's sad and distasteful, but we have to live with it. This is a war between two "countries" and, as usual, it spils over to people for those countires in other countries. During Falklands War, I'm pretty than British people and Argentine people were hating each other, even if living in different countries.

It's a terrible side effect, but it's inevitable. And all is worsened by the fact than it's a religious war, let's be honest. Extreme Muslims (Hamas and the other terrorist groups) vs. Extreme Jews (settlers, religious right and theocrats).

I would also argue than the real losers aren't Palestine or Israel, they are the moderates Jews and Muslims, who only want to live in peace in their home, villages and cities.

Um, but Jewish people in Sweden aren't Israeli citizens. Blaming them for the actions of the Israeli state is classic anti-semitism.

[Gustaf]

Are some people not aware of the fairly severe persecution of Jewish people across Europe from groups of Muslim fundamentalists? As Jewish people fled Sweden's third city the city Mayor stated that they should make Israel behave better if they wanted to be able to live safely in the city. Just to give an example of what I suspect Ray was alluding to.

You still haven't answered my question. Jews are being persecuted by Muslim fundamentalists in Europe. How is that the Palestinians' fault?!

Where did I claim it was the Palestinians' fault? I'm not sure I understand your point, if you have one.

[Gustaf]

The former director of the American Jewish Congress has offered his take in Politico, though I doubt Ray Goldfield, dead0man and others will like what he has to say.

Surely he is one of those "self-hating Jews".

Plenty of Jews are of course critical of Israel and its policies and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it'd be expected in a democratic country like Israel that a fair share of the population would be critical of the government.

[Gustaf]

I've seen several people on the internet claim it was a hoax, but nothing about it in real media. What's the source for this claim? It seems like something that would be hard to fool the French government into thinking if it weren't true.

[Gustaf]

So where does this "Israel is the only democracy in the region" line come from?  I keep hearing it.  Did Lebanon cease to exist at some point or something?

Lebanon is arguably a democracy for the last few years, but during the time that line became common knowledge they weren't. The same goes for other examples mentioned in this thread. (and Turkey...eh, did people follow their last election? I have a friend who was a poll worker there and I know a guy who did some analysis on it. I really don't buy that they are )

[Gustaf]

No one has ever questioned the results of Turkish elections. Even the opposition doesn't claim elections are rigged.

Well, that is obviously untrue - I just did. If you want someone who isn't me you can read this: http://erikmeyersson.com/2014/04/01/is-something-rotten-in-ankaras-mayoral-election-a-very-preliminary-statistical-analysis/

[Gustaf]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html

(apologize for Huffington Post)

That's a pretty poor article.

Statement 1: Ok, everyone knows they do things like blockade Gaza, give them electricity, etc. That isn't the same as occupation though which is the point.

Statement 2: Under his definition everyone wants a ceasefire. Saying Hamas wants a ceasefire if their conditions are met is an empty statement.

Statement 3: He does not mention a single fact about Israel deliberately targeting civilians.

That's honestly as far as I got before I gave up on it.

Note, I'm not saying some of this aren't legitimate debate points to bring up. But it's not "using facts to debunk myths". I hate it when people abuse that kind of terminology to express mere viewpoints.

[Gustaf]

It should be noted that it's an online newspaper with an open blog platform so it is more like one guy being a bit mental. Not THAT reflective of anything.