Federal Judge Rules California Death Penalty Unconstitutional

[H. Ross Peron]

Is America set to join the rest of the civilised world???

5 decades too late.

Didn't Breivik get about 20 years paid vacation in a comfortable and well furnished "cell"? Perhaps America is better off not joining this.

One can still retain the death penalty for exceptional cases or (unlike Norway) retain the option of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

States without a death penalty have a lower murder rate.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Is America set to join the rest of the civilised world???

5 decades too late.

Didn't Breivik get about 20 years paid vacation in a comfortable and well furnished "cell"? Perhaps America is better off not joining this.

One can still retain the death penalty for exceptional cases or (unlike Norway) retain the option of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

Can't even Norway basically extend the sentence as needed or wanted until it's effectively life without calling it life?

[Franzl]

Is America set to join the rest of the civilised world???

5 decades too late.

Didn't Breivik get about 20 years paid vacation in a comfortable and well furnished "cell"? Perhaps America is better off not joining this.

One can still retain the death penalty for exceptional cases or (unlike Norway) retain the option of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

Can't even Norway basically extend the sentence as needed or wanted until it's effectively life without calling it life?

Yes

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is America set to join the rest of the civilised world???

5 decades too late.

Didn't Breivik get about 20 years paid vacation in a comfortable and well furnished "cell"? Perhaps America is better off not joining this.

One can still retain the death penalty for exceptional cases or (unlike Norway) retain the option of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

Can't even Norway basically extend the sentence as needed or wanted until it's effectively life without calling it life?

Yes

Somehow our resident American mob lynchers like to always leave that part out.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

States without a death penalty have a lower murder rate.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

So?  Would it not make sense that areas with higher murder rates would be more likely to support the use of capital punishment?  This sort of raw data really shows nothing.

[IceSpear]

Is America set to join the rest of the civilised world???

5 decades too late.

Didn't Breivik get about 20 years paid vacation in a comfortable and well furnished "cell"? Perhaps America is better off not joining this.

One can still retain the death penalty for exceptional cases or (unlike Norway) retain the option of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

Well yeah, I wasn't defending the American system, just the assertion that all of Europe is "oh so enlightened" on the issue. Of course, people that argue for abolition of the death penalty aren't all extreme cases such as Norway.

I'm not completely against the "rehabilitation" model, and I actually think it should be applied to a lot of American prisoners. The problem with a one size fits all approach is that you end up babying mass murderers, terrorists, and people who are pure evil and will never change. These kind of people deserve the current American justice system. Conversely, the American justice system's one size fits all approach ends up brutalizing young single moms who accidentally carry guns into a different state and people who smoke weed. A poll just released shows that even Massachusetts supports the death penalty for Tsarnaev 62-29. I'm of the opinion that the death penalty should certainly be kept around for cases such as him.

[Franzl]

Is America set to join the rest of the civilised world???

5 decades too late.

Didn't Breivik get about 20 years paid vacation in a comfortable and well furnished "cell"? Perhaps America is better off not joining this.

One can still retain the death penalty for exceptional cases or (unlike Norway) retain the option of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

Well yeah, I wasn't defending the American system, just the assertion that all of Europe is "oh so enlightened" on the issue. Of course, people that argue for abolition of the death penalty aren't all extreme cases such as Norway.

I'm not completely against the "rehabilitation" model, and I actually think it should be applied to a lot of American prisoners. The problem with a one size fits all approach is that you end up babying mass murderers, terrorists, and people who are pure evil and will never change. These kind of people deserve the current American justice system. Conversely, the American justice system's one size fits all approach ends up brutalizing young single moms who accidentally carry guns into a different state and people who smoke weed. A poll just released shows that even Massachusetts supports the death penalty for Tsarnaev 62-29. I'm of the opinion that the death penalty should certainly be kept around for cases such as him.

If one accepts that the "worst of the worst" deserve the current American justice system (a proposition that may be true in some cases), wouldn't it still be fair to say that far more non-serious criminals are subjected to wrath of the American system than mass murderers (and other "pure evil" criminals) get off relatively easy in Norway? (Which isn't exactly true either, seeing as Norway likely never will release Breivik, for example).

Of course, basing a justice system entirely on what people "deserve" is already a mistake. But that's a different debate.

[PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald]

[DemPGH]

It's really about time. The interesting thing is that there are delays in the first place because it's unfair and carried out haphazardly. So ruling that the whole thing is unconstitutional is wonderful. There's still a tough fight ahead, but this is a big step in the right direction.

[IceSpear]

Is America set to join the rest of the civilised world???

5 decades too late.

Didn't Breivik get about 20 years paid vacation in a comfortable and well furnished "cell"? Perhaps America is better off not joining this.

One can still retain the death penalty for exceptional cases or (unlike Norway) retain the option of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

Well yeah, I wasn't defending the American system, just the assertion that all of Europe is "oh so enlightened" on the issue. Of course, people that argue for abolition of the death penalty aren't all extreme cases such as Norway.

I'm not completely against the "rehabilitation" model, and I actually think it should be applied to a lot of American prisoners. The problem with a one size fits all approach is that you end up babying mass murderers, terrorists, and people who are pure evil and will never change. These kind of people deserve the current American justice system. Conversely, the American justice system's one size fits all approach ends up brutalizing young single moms who accidentally carry guns into a different state and people who smoke weed. A poll just released shows that even Massachusetts supports the death penalty for Tsarnaev 62-29. I'm of the opinion that the death penalty should certainly be kept around for cases such as him.

If one accepts that the "worst of the worst" deserve the current American justice system (a proposition that may be true in some cases), wouldn't it still be fair to say that far more non-serious criminals are subjected to wrath of the American system than mass murderers (and other "pure evil" criminals) get off relatively easy in Norway? (Which isn't exactly true either, seeing as Norway likely never will release Breivik, for example).

Of course, basing a justice system entirely on what people "deserve" is already a mistake. But that's a different debate.

Yes, that would be fair to say. If I was absolutely forced to choose one or the other, it would probably be Norway's, but neither one is ideal.

[politicallefty]

Why does any state have the death penalty? 

Around the same time that SCOTUS handed down Furman v. Georgia that struck down all death penalty laws, the California Supreme Court also ruled the death penalty as categorically unconstitutional based on the California Constitution. In response, California voters in 1972 effectively overturned that decision through a constitutional amendment. In 1986, three Justices on the California Supreme Court lost their reconfirmation votes due to their opposition to the death penalty (allowing pro-death penalty Governor Deukmejian to appoint their successors). A repeal of California's death penalty narrowly failed in 2012 by a 48-52 margin.

I don't know if the death penalty can be repealed through the normal legislative process in California. I think a big reason as to why it isn't more strongly opposed is that it isn't used that often. California easily has the largest death row in the country, but actual executions have been quite rare. I'm of the opinion that support for the death penalty would fall if the state used it, particularly if it were to reach the levels of some of the Southern states (such as Texas, Oklahoma, or Virginia). In California, it seems to be almost an abstract issue.