Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board.

[H. Ross Peron]

What's been happening in both Ukraine and Gaza to-day are just awful. Hopefully this will make Germany and other European countries follow America's lead in imposing harsher sanctions on Russia.

[Knives]

Russia needs the harshest sanctions placed on them atm.

I want to see Russia's economy collapse.

[BaconBacon96]

Russia needs the harshest sanctions placed on them atm.

I want to see Russia's economy collapse.

Same. They need to pay for this.

[Middle-aged Europe]

BBC reports that Ukrainian separatists have handed the plane's black box over to Russian authorities for analysis in Moscow.

Awesome!

[Middle-aged Europe]

Among the victims of MH17 were Joep Lange, former president of the International AIDS Society, and WHO official Glenn Thomas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joep_Lange

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It seems quite clear this was a SNAFU by trigger happy rebels.

[jeron]

Among the victims of MH17 were Joep Lange, former president of the International AIDS Society, and WHO official Glenn Thomas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joep_Lange

Dutch senator Willem Witteveen (Labour party) was also on the plane.

[Mr. Morden]

So I've seen quite a few stories about Australian passengers, but none about American passengers.  Given that the supposed 20+ American passengers weren't listed in Malaysia Airlines' accounting of the nationalities of the passengers, are we to conclude that that number was just a screw-up?  Were there any American passengers as far as we know?

[Simfan34]

Local newspapers in Malaysia are reporting PM Najib Razak's grandmother was on the flight.

Lavrov says Russia will not seize the black box, as per RT.

[ilikeverin]

Step-grandmother, actually:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

link

[Simfan34]

RT is literally showing a "media bias" piece every 10 minutes.

[Platypus]

Just heard on the radio that organisers of the candlelight vigil for the AIDS conference are quintupling their attendance expectations based on public enquiries to 100,000+. I'm likely to go myself tbh, and I'd like to say it had nothing to do with the plane but it probably made the difference between 'aware but it'll be cold and miserable' to 'probably attending'

[Simfan34]

Also wondering if anyone was killed on the ground.

[King]

I know nothing of EU politics so please enlighten me.

What's the atmosphere like in the Netherlands right now over this?

If EU and NATO sit on their hands again, could the Dutch possibly respond on their own? How equipped is their air force?

[Boris]

The Netherlands (or NATO collectively) won't unilaterally engage in military action; what targets would they even hit? They could invoke article IV of NATO (which Poland and I think Lithuania earlier invoked during the Russian invasion of Crimea), and most likely NATO/EU will demand a cessation of Russian support for the rebels (MRLS, tanks)  and the removal of all long range Russian surface to air missiles inside Eastern Ukraine, or face "increased sanctions." If the commander who ordered the launch can be identified, they can also issue an indictment.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Okay, this is it. The Western governments have tolerated this pro-Russian bullsh*t for too long. Now, we've got 298 dead civilians, who had absolutely nothing to do with this conflict.

Something needs to be done. Something serious.

We can't.

German businesses do too much in Russia to allow Merkel to do something.
Russians have invested too much money in UK to allow Cameron to do something.
Obama won't do anything as long Europe won't allow him.

Yes, they can. They just have to stop bending over for "MUH BUSINESS INTERESTS" (sorry to whichever poster does that for stealing it) and realize that appeasement only leads to bad things further down the road than a few billion Euros lost in trade and investment.

I'm not even a hawk, but this is absurd.

[Simfan34]

What's the atmosphere like in the Netherlands right now over this?

The BBC just posted this on their update page:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Simfan34]

Obama saying one American was on the flight.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Calling for a ceasefire but how is he going to enforce it? Send a UN peacekeeping force?

[jeron]

I know nothing of EU politics so please enlighten me.

What's the atmosphere like in the Netherlands right now over this?

If EU and NATO sit on their hands again, could the Dutch possibly respond on their own? How equipped is their air force?

I think many people are just shocked.
I dont't think the Dutch will respond right now, certainly not on their own. The Dutch PM and foreign minister called for an international investigation by the UN. We'll have to wait for a report. The PM said that if it turns out to be an attack, everything should be done to find these people and and bring them to justice.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

It seems quite clear this was a SNAFU by trigger happy rebels.

By all accounts, yes.

[Silent Hunter]

I agree with True Federalist and AG; this seems like a case of manslaughter by gross negligence rather than deliberate murder.

[Hash]

Nothing of importance will be done. We can't piss off a psychopath with nukes.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Nothing of importance will be done. We can't piss off a psychopath with nukes.

Putin is a psychopath? I think he is very, very sane and level headed. He knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. That is what makes him so dangerous.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Nothing of importance will be done. We can't piss off a psychopath with nukes.

Putin is a psychopath? I think he is very, very sane and level headed. He knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. That is what makes him so dangerous.

Precisely. Putin is far more cautious than the typical expansionist dictator (and I'm not denying at all that Putin is an expansionist dictator).