Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board.
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  Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board.
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Author Topic: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board.  (Read 12434 times)
bore
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« Reply #100 on: July 18, 2014, 12:26:16 PM »
« edited: July 18, 2014, 02:57:02 PM by Senator bore »

Nothing of importance will be done. We can't piss off a psychopath with nukes.
Putin is a psychopath? I think he is very, very sane and level headed. He knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. That is what makes him so dangerous.

You can be (and most psychopaths probably are) a pyschopath and be sane and level headed.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #101 on: July 18, 2014, 12:34:04 PM »

Nothing of importance will be done. We can't piss off a psychopath with nukes.
Putin is a psychopath? I think he is very, very sane and level headed. He knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. That is what makes him so dangerous.

You can be (and most probably are) a pyschopath and be sane and level headed.
Personal attacks aside, you have somewhat of a point....somewhat.

Is Putin a cold, calculating, and evil man hell bent on power? Yes. Is he, as Snowstalker said, an expansionist dictator? Yes, he is. But Putin is not anymore likely to press the button than the Iranians are.
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dead0man
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« Reply #102 on: July 18, 2014, 12:37:52 PM »


You can be (and most probably are) a pyschopath and be sane and level headed.
Personal attacks aside, you have somewhat of a point....somewhat.
I think he meant "you" in the Third Person way.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #103 on: July 18, 2014, 12:39:42 PM »


You can be (and most probably are) a pyschopath and be sane and level headed.
Personal attacks aside, you have somewhat of a point....somewhat.
I think he meant "you" in the Third Person way.
I suspected that, but the (and most likely are) part threw me off.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #104 on: July 18, 2014, 12:42:03 PM »

I agree with True Federalist and AG; this seems like a case of manslaughter by gross negligence rather than deliberate murder.

And since negligent manslaughter is criminal, one wonders if this would constitute war crimes, meaning it would fall under the jurisdiction of the ICC.
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bore
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« Reply #105 on: July 18, 2014, 12:59:38 PM »

Yeah I meant you in the third person sense.

With the "and most likely are" I meant that most psychopaths are sane and level headed.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #106 on: July 18, 2014, 01:09:18 PM »

Cue the conspiracy theories in 3...2...

No, no,  I think everyone's in agreement that some gummit shot it down.

Theories about TWA-800 and Flight 93, where gummits deny it are more fun.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #107 on: July 18, 2014, 01:12:29 PM »

Yeah I meant you in the third person sense.

With the "and most likely are" I meant that most psychopaths are sane and level headed.
Understood, sorry for the confusion Smiley.
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Hash
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« Reply #108 on: July 18, 2014, 01:26:11 PM »

Nothing of importance will be done. We can't piss off a psychopath with nukes.
Putin is a psychopath? I think he is very, very sane and level headed. He knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. That is what makes him so dangerous.

You can be (and most probably are) a pyschopath and be sane and level headed.

Yes, that's what I meant. Putin is likely a very smart and calculating person with an excellent sense of risk management, but at the same time it's clear that the man is a psycho with absolutely no sense of human decency or regard for human life (say what you will about most politicians, but even the worst ones still have basic human decency and would probably not happily murder random people). And while he may not be trigger-happy with the nukes, my point holds - you don't fyck with a madman with nukes.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #109 on: July 18, 2014, 01:39:02 PM »

So how far could Putin go? I mean, it's become rather clear what's happened and governments' words of caution are diplomatic formalities. Could they shoot down passenger planes at will whilst we did nothing? Bomb Kiev? Launch a full invasion of Ukraine? There's a certain point where I imagine we'd do something.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #110 on: July 18, 2014, 01:51:44 PM »

So how far could Putin go? I mean, it's become rather clear what's happened and governments' words of caution are diplomatic formalities. Could they shoot down passenger planes at will whilst we did nothing? Bomb Kiev? Launch a full invasion of Ukraine? There's a certain point where I imagine we'd do something.

I assume the point of no return would be an invasion of a NATO member state (most likely Latvia or Estonia).
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Simfan34
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« Reply #111 on: July 18, 2014, 01:59:13 PM »

So how far could Putin go? I mean, it's become rather clear what's happened and governments' words of caution are diplomatic formalities. Could they shoot down passenger planes at will whilst we did nothing? Bomb Kiev? Launch a full invasion of Ukraine? There's a certain point where I imagine we'd do something.

I assume the point of no return would be an invasion of a NATO member state (most likely Latvia or Estonia).

This seems rather appropriate for the times.
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King
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« Reply #112 on: July 18, 2014, 03:46:02 PM »

If Putin is in on a mission to reconquest the USSR, he'd probably save the NATO nations for last. So if that's the tipping point, we already dropped the ball.
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patrick1
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« Reply #113 on: July 18, 2014, 05:55:52 PM »

Nothing of importance will be done. We can't piss off a psychopath with nukes.
Putin is a psychopath? I think he is very, very sane and level headed. He knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. That is what makes him so dangerous.

You can be (and most probably are) a pyschopath and be sane and level headed.

Yes, that's what I meant. Putin is likely a very smart and calculating person with an excellent sense of risk management, but at the same time it's clear that the man is a psycho with absolutely no sense of human decency or regard for human life (say what you will about most politicians, but even the worst ones still have basic human decency and would probably not happily murder random people). And while he may not be trigger-happy with the nukes, my point holds - you don't fyck with a madman with nukes.

Putin doesnt meet the clinical definitions of this. I think it is more instructive to think of Putin's background as KGB. He was trained to kill and manipulate to advance the Soviet agenda. He has used this skill set now to advance his and in his mind Russia's interest. I'm sure he sees no distinction between the two.  Clearly Putin is a better poker player than W because he clearly could not see into his soul... He has outflanked the West on the Ukraine too.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #114 on: July 18, 2014, 06:51:13 PM »

Putin is not insane and it seems to me that the desire to declare him insane stems from the human habit of demonizing "the enemy".

Putin is surely a guy who thinks that the end justify the means, that you have to break some eggs in order to make an omelette, and that collateral damage is acceptable. If this makes him insane, than the majority of world leaders in history were insane too (and I'm not talking about Hitler).
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Boris
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« Reply #115 on: July 18, 2014, 07:59:58 PM »

In all honesty, a Russian invasion and occupation of Luhansk and Donetsk around when the insurgency began would have likely resulted in this event not happening and less casualties overall, since Ukrainian forces would be more apprehensive in engaging Russia militarily and Russian troops, assuming they're more competent than Donbass (or dare I say, dumbass) insurgents, would presumably be in control of long range air defense systems.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #116 on: July 18, 2014, 08:38:52 PM »

Krystal Ball pranked by Capt. Janks while covering the incident. Am I a bad person if I thought this was funny?
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #117 on: July 19, 2014, 06:17:14 AM »

Looting of the passengers' possessions:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-crash-site-freelance-journalist-filip-warwick-reveals-grim-first-views-20140719-zurxu.html

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jfern
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« Reply #118 on: July 19, 2014, 06:38:06 PM »

Rebels take away the bodies
http://time.com/3008016/ukraine-crash-bodies-separatists/

Ukraine says rebels just sent anti-aircraft systems back to Russia.
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-buk-systems-russia-20140719-story.html#page=1
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #119 on: July 20, 2014, 12:48:27 AM »

I feel like making up a conspiracy story as ridiculous as the ones the rebels and their Russian backers are spewing.  Clearly what happened here is that the Russian mafia is engaging in a shakedown of Malaysia Airlines.  MA refused to pay, so they got the rebels to shoot down a Malaysia Airlines plane flying over Ukraine.  Alas, this actually makes more sense than the theories Putin and his lackeys are regurgitating, tho it has no more evidence than what they are saying.
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jfern
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« Reply #120 on: July 20, 2014, 01:07:26 AM »
« Edited: July 20, 2014, 01:10:43 AM by ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ »

I feel like making up a conspiracy story as ridiculous as the ones the rebels and their Russian backers are spewing.  Clearly what happened here is that the Russian mafia is engaging in a shakedown of Malaysia Airlines.  MA refused to pay, so they got the rebels to shoot down a Malaysia Airlines plane flying over Ukraine.  Alas, this actually makes more sense than the theories Putin and his lackeys are regurgitating, tho it has no more evidence than what they are saying.

How about this one? Ukrainian terrorists told Malaysian Airlines that they'd release the passengers they were holding hostage from flight 370 if Malaysian Airlines would sent a flight of dead bodies to fly repeatedly over the rebel areas that was disguised as a Ukrainian military aircraft so that it would eventually get shot down.

Or alternately, the Ukraine took the plane from flight 370, rebranded it as flight 17, disguised it as their own military aircraft, and killed all of the flight 370 passengers and placed them on the plane.
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #121 on: July 20, 2014, 06:23:53 PM »

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King
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« Reply #122 on: July 21, 2014, 12:14:34 PM »

The Russian government is trying to edit wikipedia articles on the incident.

http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201407211855-0023944
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #123 on: July 21, 2014, 12:39:27 PM »

The Russian government is trying to edit wikipedia articles on the incident.

http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201407211855-0023944

That's very Stalinist of them.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #124 on: July 21, 2014, 06:19:44 PM »


I mean this doesn't prove the government as an entity is trying to edit the article, for all we know it could be some random pencil pusher acting on his own accord. If there were waves of edits coming from government IPs that might be different, but the Russian media is quite consistent in blaming Ukraine for this, so it's hardly peculiar.
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