Renewing our Promise to Workers Act of 2014

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A universal basic income grant is just what it sounds like: a universal grant, to everyone. Everyone would receive a lump sum of money every year for use on whatever they wish. I think that should be enough to bring them over the poverty line and allow them to live comfortably, which is why I would want it set at at least $30,000, subject to no tax, and adjusted with inflation.

What is the practical difference between that and a negative income tax calculated to bring bring people up to a certain level, augmenting what they recieve through other sources?

[TNF]

A universal basic income grant is just what it sounds like: a universal grant, to everyone. Everyone would receive a lump sum of money every year for use on whatever they wish. I think that should be enough to bring them over the poverty line and allow them to live comfortably, which is why I would want it set at at least $30,000, subject to no tax, and adjusted with inflation.

What is the practical difference between that and a negative income tax calculated to bring bring people up to a certain level, augmenting what they recieve through other sources?

The practical difference is that not everyone benefits from an NIT, while everyone benefits from a BIG.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A universal basic income grant is just what it sounds like: a universal grant, to everyone. Everyone would receive a lump sum of money every year for use on whatever they wish. I think that should be enough to bring them over the poverty line and allow them to live comfortably, which is why I would want it set at at least $30,000, subject to no tax, and adjusted with inflation.

What is the practical difference between that and a negative income tax calculated to bring bring people up to a certain level, augmenting what they recieve through other sources?

The practical difference is that not everyone benefits from an NIT, while everyone benefits from a BIG.

What is the criteria? Surely we shouldn't not litteraly be handing everyone $30,000 dollars, some out there have it already several times over and we should focus our resources on those who need it most.

Is there any other criteria of exclusion from an NIT?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Is there a purpose behind discussing the same thing in two different bills? If not we should axe one of them I think.

[TNF]

This bill has nothing to do with a BIG. It is about restoring the minimum wage.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What is more important TNF? Boosting the minimum wage, or boosting the living standards and incomes of the poor and working class?

[TNF]

What is more important TNF? Boosting the minimum wage, or boosting the living standards and incomes of the poor and working class?

There's no reason why we can't do both.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

If we have a UBI, I don't think we need an $18/hr minimum wage. That would make the minimum possible income (with a job) around $50,000, and it seems like that could lead to some inflation.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What is more important TNF? Boosting the minimum wage, or boosting the living standards and incomes of the poor and working class?

There's no reason why we can't do both.

What should a means to an end be as important as the end itself, especialyl when said means has drawbacks that could be avoided by going a different route?

[TNF]

If we have a UBI, I don't think we need an $18/hr minimum wage. That would make the minimum possible income (with a job) around $50,000, and it seems like that could lead to some inflation.

Your point? Inflation can be controlled fairly easily. We tax away excess wealth at the top and reduce working hours.

[Dr. Cynic]

If we have a UBI, I don't think we need an $18/hr minimum wage. That would make the minimum possible income (with a job) around $50,000, and it seems like that could lead to some inflation.

Your point? Inflation can be controlled fairly easily. We tax away excess wealth at the top and reduce working hours.

To what extent would you have in mind to reduce them to, Senator? How would that impact Atlasia's ability to compete with foreign economies? I'm not against this yet, but that point weighs heavily on my mind.

[TNF]

The lowest I think we could reasonably go at this point is a 20 hour workweek. We've got a 32 hour workweek right now, but with the massive increases in productivity we've seen since the 1970s, we could theoretically go down to a 15 hour workweek, iirc. But I think 20 is good because it's an even number and it would utterly and totally end unemployment.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

The lowest I think we could reasonably go at this point is a 20 hour workweek. We've got a 32 hour workweek right now, but with the massive increases in productivity we've seen since the 1970s, we could theoretically go down to a 15 hour workweek, iirc. But I think 20 is good because it's an even number and it would utterly and totally end unemployment.

But neither 8 or 6 multiply evenly to 20. Perhaps a 24-hour week (3 8-hour days or 4 6-hour days)?

[TNF]

4 x 5 = 20

Four five hour days or five four hour days. (I'd prefer the former)

[Dr. Cynic]

I could support 4 5 hour days.

[Maxwell]

20 hour work week are you guys actually serious? I hope some Senators have some sense to reject this nonsense.

[Deus Naturae]

If we have a UBI, I don't think we need an $18/hr minimum wage. That would make the minimum possible income (with a job) around $50,000, and it seems like that could lead to some inflation.

Your point? Inflation can be controlled fairly easily. We tax away excess wealth at the top and reduce working hours.

How will that impact inflation? Reducing working hours would probably exacerbate it as it would increase production costs considerably and thus raise prices.

[DemPGH]

Twenty hours? Wow.

Not saying I don't support this, but the most generous in the developed world is around 30 hours. Just FYI.

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/economy/2013/07/10/worlds-shortest-work-weeks/index.html?iid=F_Jump

[Supersonic]

20 hour work week are you guys actually serious? I hope some Senators have some sense to reject this nonsense.

Atlasia fell off the deep end long before this.

[windjammer]

When my favorite rosbeef will run for senate?

[Dr. Cynic]

What about 5 5 hour days? You get 25 hours a week. The reason I liked the idea of 20 was that you could double the amount of shifts in a given work day.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

20 hour work week are you guys actually serious? I hope some Senators have some sense to reject this nonsense.

Atlasia fell off the deep end long before this.

I still haven't come to turns with 32 hours, so you can be sure I won't support less than that guys.

[TNF]

What about 5 5 hour days? You get 25 hours a week. The reason I liked the idea of 20 was that you could double the amount of shifts in a given work day.

We've already eliminated the 5-day week. I'd rather us not go back to that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Minimal posting the last two days here.

[Lumine]

Minimal posting the last two days here.

I think the problem is that we're debating a similar issue in two different pieces of legislation, and as it stands, the Wages for Housework and the proposal to introduce a pilot program on a region seems to be making more progress.

Since I am opposed to reducing the work week to such ridiculous levels (many others have that concern, even the President) and it would be more productive to focus on the other bill, I will motion to table. I'm not a fan of tabling bills, but I don't see how could I support this bill and I don't think we can amend it in a way in which it will not severly hurt our economy.