Overdiagnosis of autism
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 07:39:25 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Forum Community
  Forum Community (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, YE, KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸)
  Overdiagnosis of autism
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3
Poll
Question: Is autism overdiagnosed?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 40

Author Topic: Overdiagnosis of autism  (Read 4884 times)
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,720
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2014, 03:51:12 PM »

See, I have trouble with this topic. Autism is naturally occurring, so basically it's just a condition on the far end of "normal." Where does normal end and Autism begin? Why can't social awkwardness just be considered normal? I know I'm not being especially profound, but we're so concerned in this day and age with making people out to be special or different. I think it does a disservice to these folks a lot of the time, because we're basically forcing them to live with the idea that they can never integrate into society at large. That's just not the case.

It's like, I have a cousin eight years my junior who's about to go into grade nine. He has an IEP (not related to Autism) and has been given all this special treatment. He doesn't have to take French class, which is a requirement in grade nine, and I imagine he's signed up to take all "applied" classes, which is basically what you take if you're stupid. That's how it's perceived, at least. So this kid is going to go through high school feeling like he's dumb and not going to amount to anything. Basically, his parents' decision to put him in applied classes will affect his entire life, because he will now not even have the option to apply to university. I think it is much more admirable to struggle towards a 65% in "academic math" than get an 80% in "applied math." I know it's not my business, but I just feel like it's destructive to treat people like they're these fragile little creatures who can't achieve the same things as the rest of us. My cousin will not be valedictorian, but the opportunity to try to do well alongside everyone else, learn a few things, and develop the right work ethic is worth a lot more than an 80% in stupid class.
Logged
Storebought
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,326
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2014, 04:17:53 PM »

When I was in elementary school, our school hosted a "handicapped" program that gave the least disabled autistic students a chance to receive facilitated education within the public school system. During the school year there were about five or so in the program.

Those autistic students usually had poor motor control (I recall the spontaneous vomiting vividly), had learning disabilities, and lacked speech ability. OTOH, these kids (used loosely, since they were easily over elementary school age and most likely adolescents) could relate to other kids emotionally. They remembered who were nice to them (the girls) and who bullied them (the boys), and didn't engage in the stereotyped "autistic" activities with mechanical devices like repeated toilet-flushing, light-switching, etc. I guess that was the reason why they were selected for mainstreaming.

Autism was nothing short of severe disability. Perhaps the definition of autism has changed from the 1980s, because the autism that is being described on this thread reminds me of these kids from my elementary school days in nothing of the kind.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,965
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2014, 04:23:30 PM »

*facepalm*
Logged
Storebought
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,326
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2014, 04:44:50 PM »


So silly.

I related an experience, which was similar to the OP. Perhaps you are too young, but a generation ago, autism described a "disease" that entailed wide ranging physical as well as emotional disabilities. It has nothing to do with anyone pretending to be armchair psychiatrists.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,965
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2014, 04:50:23 PM »


So silly.

I related an experience, which was similar to the OP. Perhaps you are too young, but a generation ago, autism described a "disease" that entailed wide ranging physical as well as emotional disabilities. It has nothing to do with anyone pretending to be armchair psychiatrists.

Is it that hard to understand though that autism has different degrees?
Logged
Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,846
Ireland, Republic of


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2014, 04:57:42 PM »
« Edited: July 20, 2014, 05:08:04 PM by Tetro Kornbluth »

When I was in elementary school, our school hosted a "handicapped" program that gave the least disabled autistic students a chance to receive facilitated education within the public school system. During the school year there were about five or so in the program.

Those autistic students usually had poor motor control (I recall the spontaneous vomiting vividly), had learning disabilities, and lacked speech ability. OTOH, these kids (used loosely, since they were easily over elementary school age and most likely adolescents) could relate to other kids emotionally. They remembered who were nice to them (the girls) and who bullied them (the boys), and didn't engage in the stereotyped "autistic" activities with mechanical devices like repeated toilet-flushing, light-switching, etc. I guess that was the reason why they were selected for mainstreaming.

Autism was nothing short of severe disability. Perhaps the definition of autism has changed from the 1980s, because the autism that is being described on this thread reminds me of these kids from my elementary school days in nothing of the kind.

Up until the 1980s basically to be defined as Autistic you had to have an IQ of under 80 ('retarded' or borderline such). Changes in psychiatry since then have made that definition effectively obsolete (although those are still the most severe cases).

The explosion in cases of Autistic Spectrum Disorders didn't happen until 1994 with the publication of DSM-IV.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,610
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2014, 05:53:00 PM »

A (late) uncle of mine worked with people like that, Storebought. Apparently he had some very interesting theories, but did not believe in writing coherent notes.
Logged
GaussLaw
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,279
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2014, 10:24:48 AM »
« Edited: July 21, 2014, 10:44:11 AM by GaussLaw »

My biggest problem with an autism diagnosis is that it strikes me as something that would just stunt a person mentally and emotionally.  When I was a little kid, I liked to do things that could be described as autistic today, such as memorizing every make and model of car.  I was also somewhat socially awkward.  But thank God I was born before this autism craze.  I grew out of my social awkwardness and have become a reasonably successful person.  If I had been diagnosed with autism, I think I may have given up hope and never amounted to anything.  I would love to see a world where the psychologists were taken completely out of schools.  They do way more harm than good, IMO.  
Logged
Anti Democrat Democrat Club
SawxDem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,095
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2014, 02:58:58 AM »
« Edited: July 22, 2014, 03:04:51 AM by Sawx »


So silly.

I related an experience, which was similar to the OP. Perhaps you are too young, but a generation ago, autism described a "disease" that entailed wide ranging physical as well as emotional disabilities. It has nothing to do with anyone pretending to be armchair psychiatrists.

Is it that hard to understand though that autism has different degrees?

As someone who was diagnosed as autistic because he was "socially awkward", let me write out my manifesto. This is probably the most I've been driven to write on here by far, but it's worth the read.

Try imagining the rest of your life, being told that you were different. You're told that while you were a quirky child, social interactions were difficult for you because your first-grade teacher felt that they were because I only had three other friends in my third grade. Never mind that I organized impromptu play-dates by myself, quantity over quantity was all that mattered. I only talked to three kids, so something had to be wrong with me.

Try being told that your intelligence wasn't because of genetics, but a condition that made you weird. Try being told that your long fantasy games you played in class and the stories you told weren't being creative, but "monologues" that nobody gave a sh*t about, even though you hooked the class on them and got sent to the principal's weekly. Whenever you act out, it's not because you're being a precocious little bastard, but it's just "part of your Asperger's", as your mother put it. Everything you do feels like it's part of your little condition - from your flaws to your intelligence, and you wind up snapping at ten years old and screaming "I'M NOT ASPERGER'S, I'M SAWX!"

Try going into middle school and becoming one of the popular kids in your group, but still having a bunch of people treat you as subhuman. Even though you're barely functioning, try have people treat you like an exhibit, and feel pity for you instead of compassion. They don't see you as you the person, they see you the condition, and when they see you being you, they literally look at you with the label SPED. You get along with the rest of the group well, and they treat you normally, but there's a small group of people who group you among the profoundly disabled.

Then, try having people mistake your gifts for a disability. The "special classes" that you were mandated to take to learn social skills eventually turn into remedial English, where you play educational games that are far below your intellect. They challenge the other kids. Then the special ed department starts interrupting your classes to give you a special "study guide" that you never use in your best class, while they don't make study guides for the class you're actually struggling in.

Next, high school rolls around. Your naivete disappears, and you're finally coming to grips with the fact that you're being treated differently. You develop trust issues because you can't tell if people who treat you nicely are nice to you because they like you or are nice because they pity the poor special ed kid. You still hang out with kids, but even then you question whether some of them think you're disabled too.

Then imagine finding out that the class weirdo, who has a reputation for nothing but losing his temper over the slightest things and being a minefield of anger, has the same syndrome that you do.  Not high-functioning autism, not even f**king PDD. The foil in your story - the kid that makes your life look like the next great American novel - winds up having the same thing "wrong" with him as you. You find out that the middle school tried to make you two best friends because you had the same conditions, even though you thrived socially in sixth grade with the normal. It wasn't because you genuinely liked the kid, warts and all, because he was a gamer too. It was because we both had Asperger Syndrome, and we could learn from each other.

Imagine looking into it further, and finding out that you've been living a lie for the last nine years of your life. You find out that your long stories don't fit because children paid attention to them. You find out that you're not autistic - you're just a little weird. You find out that your fixation on letters and numbers wasn't bad at all - you interacted vividly with your parents, and you shared your obsession with them. After looking into the way you received your special education, you were given an option for the severely disabled. You eventually are released into normal society after nine months of fighting.

From then on, you can only trust two of your friends from high school because you had a hunch that they saw you as you, not Asperger's. You only have three friends from other towns in your state, and one of them is your friend's girlfriend. You calculate every social move you have to make yourself look "normal", and you constantly worry whether the world will see you as "special". If someone even so much as uses the wrong choice of words with you, you become paranoid that they see you as "different". You wind up looking for a fresh start somewhere nobody knows your name, and that winds up being the thing that makes you fully recover. Even though you're the coolest kid on some Internet forum and actually seen as so awesome that one of your friends is going to school to be friends with you in real life, and you got recruited by another online friend to the point where she's the only one who knows you in your fresh start, you're insecure about yourself. You're afraid to tell your story to anyone in case they start treating you differently, or God forbid that they actually think you're autistic. You find yourself questioning who you really are, and what to do socially, because you don't want to be seen as what you aren't like you have been for your middle and high school years. You live a facade of being a happy-go-lucky kid on the outside, but on the inside, you're irreparably damaged.

I don't know if you have it or not, but until you have it, don't diss Sanchez's and Maxwell's positions. Because it's taken thirteen years of my life to get to a point where I can finally speak out about my misdiagnosis. Obviously I'm a little weird - you all know this, and some of you have even heard tales of my weirdness. I've embraced the fact that I'm not your average twenty-year-old (after all, I am an Atlas Forumite). I have anxiety, and I'm odd. But I don't have Asperger Syndrome.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,965
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2014, 06:30:47 AM »

Thanks a lot for sharing this. You've been through a horrific experience and I am truly sorry for that. I have no idea how the educational system works in the US (or in NH), but I find it sickening that they didn't let you (regardless whether or not you have Asperger's) choose whether or not you wanted to receive the "help" that you got. Those people were well-meaning but certainly had no clue how to properly deal with cases like this, as the biggest disservice you can make to someone with Asperger's is to make it a defining label. This is totally wrong, again, whether or not the diagnosis was correct. And of course, the person who diagnosed you is guilty as well and it seems like a huge problem if it is indeed overdiagnosed in the US.

Since you have shared your experience, allow me to share mine.

I have Asperger's. I'm not defining myself as "someone who has Asperger's", and I'm sure as hell not letting anyone define me as such. In fact, I've never told most of my friends about it, and not because I'm ashamed or anything, but because I generally don't consider it relevant (when I talk about it, it's usually in response to some question related to my social skills, and I explain it in the most matter-of-fact way there is). None of my professors has ever known about my disability, even though I required extra time for exams.

I was 15 when I was diagnosed, and it came after nearly 10 years of trying to figure out what was going on with me. Because, contrary to you, I definitely had social skills issues from a very young age. In fact, I had almost no friend until high school. At elementary and middle school, schoolmates and teachers didn't need a medical label to know I was weird - it was obvious to all. The other kids reacted as elementary/middle-school kids always react when they see someone who's different. I can't say I suffered from severe bullying (never got beaten up or anything like that) but the everyday provocations became really straining and ended up making me hate going to school even though I was easily the smartest kid in the class.

Since I was diagnosed, my life has in every respect considerably improved. In fairness, most of it has nothing to do with my diagnosis (since as I said I have never made too much of it). I went to a smaller, private high school where students weren't the petty little monsters I had found before, and shared some of my interests in politics and history. I myself made some efforts to become more sociable, and ended up making real friends with whom I'm still close. Then I graduated from high school with excellent grade and ended up attending my dream university, where I met even more nice people and became even more interested in what I found there. And finally I went to SF, where people are infinitely easier to link up with than in France. I met amazing people, forged probably the closest friendship yet, and experienced love for the first time in my life (though entirely unrequited).

However, I think knowing that I had Aspergers also has helped me out significantly. As I said, I had long known I was different and didn't need a psychiatrist to convince me of that. However, it felt really good to know that my lack of social skills wasn't (entirely) my fault, that it wasn't just "not trying too hard" or "being self-centered". In some way, it made me feel more "normal" because it meant my character in itself wasn't flawed. Learning more about Asperger's I've recently realized that I'm probably among the highest-functioning people with Asperger's there are. And that's something I'm very proud of, because it means that I was able to overcome most of the hurdles I was faced with - kinda like a paralympic athlete, if you will. I don't feel any less "special" or "worthy" because of that, since I recognize there is just as much diversity among mentally handicapped people as there is among "normal" ones. My accomplishments aren't diminished because I am who I am, and Asperger's is only a small facet of that. I know what I can expect from myself, but I also know that nobody should force myself to change the core of my personality (as many well-meaning adults had tried to before I was diagnosed).
Logged
Iosif
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,609


Political Matrix
E: -1.68, S: -3.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2014, 09:10:16 AM »

Another horrendous thread.

Well done.
Logged
Badger
badger
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 40,258
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2014, 11:57:48 AM »

Indeed.  I don't know if the "Sit down and shut up!" method would work on all of them, but it would certainly work on some.

Speaking as someone with a raging case of ADHD--which was diagnosed but untreated throughout law school and frankly f-ed me up theroughly throughout my life--I'm very reluctant to proclaim anyone else's malady the new "fake disease".
Logged
Anti Democrat Democrat Club
SawxDem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,095
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2014, 01:24:27 PM »

Thanks a lot for sharing this. You've been through a horrific experience and I am truly sorry for that. I have no idea how the educational system works in the US (or in NH), but I find it sickening that they didn't let you (regardless whether or not you have Asperger's) choose whether or not you wanted to receive the "help" that you got. Those people were well-meaning but certainly had no clue how to properly deal with cases like this, as the biggest disservice you can make to someone with Asperger's is to make it a defining label. This is totally wrong, again, whether or not the diagnosis was correct. And of course, the person who diagnosed you is guilty as well and it seems like a huge problem if it is indeed overdiagnosed in the US.

Since you have shared your experience, allow me to share mine.

I have Asperger's. I'm not defining myself as "someone who has Asperger's", and I'm sure as hell not letting anyone define me as such. In fact, I've never told most of my friends about it, and not because I'm ashamed or anything, but because I generally don't consider it relevant (when I talk about it, it's usually in response to some question related to my social skills, and I explain it in the most matter-of-fact way there is). None of my professors has ever known about my disability, even though I required extra time for exams.

I was 15 when I was diagnosed, and it came after nearly 10 years of trying to figure out what was going on with me. Because, contrary to you, I definitely had social skills issues from a very young age. In fact, I had almost no friend until high school. At elementary and middle school, schoolmates and teachers didn't need a medical label to know I was weird - it was obvious to all. The other kids reacted as elementary/middle-school kids always react when they see someone who's different. I can't say I suffered from severe bullying (never got beaten up or anything like that) but the everyday provocations became really straining and ended up making me hate going to school even though I was easily the smartest kid in the class.

Since I was diagnosed, my life has in every respect considerably improved. In fairness, most of it has nothing to do with my diagnosis (since as I said I have never made too much of it). I went to a smaller, private high school where students weren't the petty little monsters I had found before, and shared some of my interests in politics and history. I myself made some efforts to become more sociable, and ended up making real friends with whom I'm still close. Then I graduated from high school with excellent grade and ended up attending my dream university, where I met even more nice people and became even more interested in what I found there. And finally I went to SF, where people are infinitely easier to link up with than in France. I met amazing people, forged probably the closest friendship yet, and experienced love for the first time in my life (though entirely unrequited).

However, I think knowing that I had Aspergers also has helped me out significantly. As I said, I had long known I was different and didn't need a psychiatrist to convince me of that. However, it felt really good to know that my lack of social skills wasn't (entirely) my fault, that it wasn't just "not trying too hard" or "being self-centered". In some way, it made me feel more "normal" because it meant my character in itself wasn't flawed. Learning more about Asperger's I've recently realized that I'm probably among the highest-functioning people with Asperger's there are. And that's something I'm very proud of, because it means that I was able to overcome most of the hurdles I was faced with - kinda like a paralympic athlete, if you will. I don't feel any less "special" or "worthy" because of that, since I recognize there is just as much diversity among mentally handicapped people as there is among "normal" ones. My accomplishments aren't diminished because I am who I am, and Asperger's is only a small facet of that. I know what I can expect from myself, but I also know that nobody should force myself to change the core of my personality (as many well-meaning adults had tried to before I was diagnosed).

Most of the help I received was when I was seven years old. I was way too young to even know what "special education" means, and I later dropped everything but the name only through my mother after I graduated middle school. Even then, I was raised to think that my "label" wasn't something to be ashamed about, and the reminders that stuff was "part of my Asperger's" was meant to "give me understanding of my condition". The IEP (which if you don't know is a plan for students that gives them special support, in contrast to the 504 which simply allows for accommodations) was given to me because they thought I needed the support.

My teachers of course meant well, and I've forgiven them for it, but I will always hold a little bit of resentment for saddling me with it. To give you a little more insight, when I was about five or six, my parents took me to a Dartmouth-educated neurologist, where they said I was just a "bright boy with quirks" - no diagnosis, no condition, no nothing. I was what I am now - an odd flavor, but relatively normal. Then, when people came along, teachers decided that they felt like the professionals were wrong, and they felt like I would need the support later in life, so they persuaded my parents to sign off on the "diagnosis".

To give you an idea of where I was then and where I am now, I was just "silly". Since I was so smart, I usually had a lot of time, where I'd play games that were really me and my friend just being childish kids. Something was clearly a little off with me at the time, but the only thing that made me look like I was a special ed kid from seventh grade on was the support I got from my teachers. I wanted this to end so I could "blend into normal society", and try to go down the road you came down. This culminated when my case manager (essentially someone who's there to help support you) in ninth grade defied one of our "orders" and interrupted one of my classes to talk to me about a C+ in one of my classes in the class, even though she was specifically told not to. She decided that a 78 in an AP class was urgent enough to break protocol that was specifically stated in my IEP, and make me look like I had something wrong in front of the girl I liked. I was predictably furious, and later spoke with teachers to tell them I wanted to be treated like a normal student. I never got to be treated the way I wanted to until I was sixteen.

Maybe it was because you had it at fifteen and could understand it, but I was essentially told that it was a syndrome for "bright people with quirks", like you and me. Mr. Foil (the kid who made me begin to realize I didn't have it) had average intelligence at best, and was barely treading water socially. We shared nothing in common but video games, and all of a sudden, we were supposed to be wired the same way, and that just sounded fishy to me. I don't know your specific social difficulties, but I was never "self-centered" or had empathy problems like most do - if anything I was more selfless than the other children. I just have little to no social inhibition, which admittedly makes me an awkward child.

Considering from our past conversations, you do have some genuine difficulties socially, and it genuinely seems like it's helped you get along in the world. If I got two opinions that said I had it, then I'd definitely accept it, but I just don't have it. Unlike yours, my diagnosis wasn't a result of seeing professionals, but two teachers playing armchair psychologist with me. Of course, the definition of the syndrome has evolved among time, and it only existed for seven years when I was diagnosed. I don't know if it was people just not knowing enough, or paranoia, or a combination of both. Early intervention can do a great amount of help with Asperger Syndrome, but if you catch a case where the child doesn't actually have it, then that can scar the child for life once they find out.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,965
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2014, 02:30:05 PM »

I find it pretty shocking that your teachers actually dismissed a professional opinion and just imposed special ed to you because of their gut feelings. Actually, I find it shocking that this is even legally possible - I mean, don't they require some sort of medical certification for this thing. This sort of behavior is absolutely inexcusable and runs counter so many educational principles that it should be considered a serious violation. Once again, this seems to have been a terrible experience and I'm truly sorry for you.

It also means that what happened to you can't be blamed with overdiagnosis of Asperger's since if I understand correctly you were actually never diagnosed as such. It seems that the only qualified neurologist who was involved in this process actually was right all along. Just like the renowned Parisian neuropsychiatrist who diagnosed me with Asperger's was. I'm not claiming that all psychiatrists/psychologists are above all blame (in fact, in France they are blamed for having completely misunderstood autism for decades, with dramatic consequences). Still, I don't think that anyone here has solid grounds to claim that (beyond the media hype that certainly exists) Aspergers is actually overdiagnosed.
Logged
Anti Democrat Democrat Club
SawxDem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,095
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2014, 05:51:07 PM »

I find it pretty shocking that your teachers actually dismissed a professional opinion and just imposed special ed to you because of their gut feelings. Actually, I find it shocking that this is even legally possible - I mean, don't they require some sort of medical certification for this thing. This sort of behavior is absolutely inexcusable and runs counter so many educational principles that it should be considered a serious violation. Once again, this seems to have been a terrible experience and I'm truly sorry for you.

It wasn't even that - my first-grade teacher said that I might have had it, but my second-grade teacher said I'd definitely need the support, so they wound up persuading my parents to tell my doctor to sign off on the diagnosis. They got the medical certification from my teacher because "feels".

It also means that what happened to you can't be blamed with overdiagnosis of Asperger's since if I understand correctly you were actually never diagnosed as such. It seems that the only qualified neurologist who was involved in this process actually was right all along. Just like the renowned Parisian neuropsychiatrist who diagnosed me with Asperger's was. I'm not claiming that all psychiatrists/psychologists are above all blame (in fact, in France they are blamed for having completely misunderstood autism for decades, with dramatic consequences). Still, I don't think that anyone here has solid grounds to claim that (beyond the media hype that certainly exists) Aspergers is actually overdiagnosed.

The general problem remains the same - the overdiagnosis of autism in the way I was misdiagnosed is actually fairly common. In America, people take teachers' inputs very seriously with children, especially in cases of the first/only child in the family (like mine). The logic behind it is that teachers spend six or seven hours of the day at school observing the children, so their observations have quite a bit of weight in minds of the teachers.

To take another example out of my life, I spent most of the day in first grade, even in the middle of class, looking in the mirror because I was bored. When other kids just started reading Frog and Toad, I had already finished the first book of Harry Potter, and was ready to head down the Chamber of Secrets. Most of the books wound up being uninteresting to me, and I simply resorted to being enamored by my own reflection. She mistook my lack of paying attention to her lessons as me being distracted too easily instead of not being bothered to listen to stuff I knew, and she wound up talking to mother about me "not behaving normally".

After a talk with the parents, they recommend a neurologist or a psychiatrist to go to, and they judge from there. Sometimes, if the parents trust the teacher enough, they can skip an evaluation altogether and simply go straight to the diagnosis, or just straight up trust the teachers over the neurologist (like in my case). My parents simply thought that two teachers, who dealt with me for two years, were experienced in special education, and observed me outside of their learning environment, were just as qualified as a professional opinion, and it wound up being two women playing doctor. In France, having psychiatrists and neurologists make the decisions might be a thing, but in America, it's usually the teachers who make the first signs.
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,096
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2014, 10:42:36 PM »

Aren't "normal" people the worst? They exist to do manual/office labor and other peon jobs, nothing more. That's their role in life. They aren't capable of doing anything that requires thought or intelligence. They are expendable. They exist solely to breed people who will grow up to be just like them.

I fear for them when automation obsoletes their existence.
I'm surprised you don't want the disabled to be euthanized, none the less that you hate "normal" people.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,965
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2014, 05:52:47 AM »

Yeah, teachers do have a strong influence on these issues here as well. Actually, my first psychological exam (in 1st grade) was conducted on the advice of a teacher. As a result I was labeled a "gifted" child, but no mention of Aspergers (just to illustrate how unknown it was in France until very recently). I can also see how bogus medical certificates can be easily obtained from a family doctor, I think that's the same everywhere... Still, I want to hope that special education is rarely implemented without a valid medical opinion. I'm not even sure if special ed is actually necessary for children with Asperger's (at least I don't think it would have done any good to me, though I know there are much more serious cases of Asperger's than mine). So it seems like there is indeed some popular hype in the US about Asperger's (though again maybe professionals aren't really to blame for this). In France though, we're barely starting to become aware of it, and I've heard several times that it's severely underdiagnosed.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,965
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2014, 05:55:54 AM »

Aren't "normal" people the worst? They exist to do manual/office labor and other peon jobs, nothing more. That's their role in life. They aren't capable of doing anything that requires thought or intelligence. They are expendable. They exist solely to breed people who will grow up to be just like them.

I fear for them when automation obsoletes their existence.

Logged
© tweed
Miamiu1027
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,563
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2014, 10:58:47 AM »

I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.

can't "campaigning to have a diagnosed medical condition" have a lot to do with keeping the insurance money flowing, especially in the US?  I know the medicalization of addiction has been a huge boon to the multibillion dollar addiction/recovery industry, and even confers certain privileges on those diagnosed with addiction (you can't be fired for having the disease of addiction, etc).
Logged
Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,846
Ireland, Republic of


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2014, 12:04:39 PM »

I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.

can't "campaigning to have a diagnosed medical condition" have a lot to do with keeping the insurance money flowing, especially in the US?  I know the medicalization of addiction has been a huge boon to the multibillion dollar addiction/recovery industry, and even confers certain privileges on those diagnosed with addiction (you can't be fired for having the disease of addiction, etc).

Yes, but is this really a problem?
Logged
© tweed
Miamiu1027
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,563
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2014, 12:53:37 PM »

I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.

can't "campaigning to have a diagnosed medical condition" have a lot to do with keeping the insurance money flowing, especially in the US?  I know the medicalization of addiction has been a huge boon to the multibillion dollar addiction/recovery industry, and even confers certain privileges on those diagnosed with addiction (you can't be fired for having the disease of addiction, etc).

Yes, but is this really a problem?

I have argued that the recovery industry in the US is basically an insurance and court-system fueled snake oil gravy train, so, yes.
Logged
Anti Democrat Democrat Club
SawxDem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,095
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2014, 03:25:41 PM »

I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.

can't "campaigning to have a diagnosed medical condition" have a lot to do with keeping the insurance money flowing, especially in the US?  I know the medicalization of addiction has been a huge boon to the multibillion dollar addiction/recovery industry, and even confers certain privileges on those diagnosed with addiction (you can't be fired for having the disease of addiction, etc).

Oh, of course. More special education kids means more funding to the school.

Logged
© tweed
Miamiu1027
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,563
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2014, 06:23:40 PM »

I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.

can't "campaigning to have a diagnosed medical condition" have a lot to do with keeping the insurance money flowing, especially in the US?  I know the medicalization of addiction has been a huge boon to the multibillion dollar addiction/recovery industry, and even confers certain privileges on those diagnosed with addiction (you can't be fired for having the disease of addiction, etc).

Oh, of course. More special education kids means more funding to the school.

as well as all of the insurance-fueled, intensive treatment centers where the kids play computer games for an hour and the 'doctor' bills the insurance company $500 a pop.
Logged
Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,846
Ireland, Republic of


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2014, 08:08:12 PM »

I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.

can't "campaigning to have a diagnosed medical condition" have a lot to do with keeping the insurance money flowing, especially in the US?  I know the medicalization of addiction has been a huge boon to the multibillion dollar addiction/recovery industry, and even confers certain privileges on those diagnosed with addiction (you can't be fired for having the disease of addiction, etc).

Yes, but is this really a problem?

I have argued that the recovery industry in the US is basically an insurance and court-system fueled snake oil gravy train, so, yes.

Yes, but is that a bad thing?
Logged
Anti Democrat Democrat Club
SawxDem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,095
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2014, 04:14:31 AM »

I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.

can't "campaigning to have a diagnosed medical condition" have a lot to do with keeping the insurance money flowing, especially in the US?  I know the medicalization of addiction has been a huge boon to the multibillion dollar addiction/recovery industry, and even confers certain privileges on those diagnosed with addiction (you can't be fired for having the disease of addiction, etc).

Yes, but is this really a problem?

I have argued that the recovery industry in the US is basically an insurance and court-system fueled snake oil gravy train, so, yes.

Yes, but is that a bad thing?

I'm from a small town of about 2,000 people, our elementary school has about 250 kids in it (closer to 200 when I was young), and our citizens for the most part don't like taxes, even if it's helpful to the community. Obviously, elementary school was amazing, and honestly fourth and fifth grade was probably my social peak, and before, we were a genuinely small town.

Since my school was so tiny, it had a barebones setup - you had your rooms for each teacher, a special ed room, the principal's office, a few bathrooms, and a library as tiny as our school was. What used to be the art or the music room became rooms for other teachers because the grade expanded, so instead of going to a separate room for art or music class, we simply had "art in a cart" or "Sawxistan Elementary School's Traveling Band". Hell, we didn't even have a gym, so whenever we wanted to escape the cold New Hampshire winters or rain, we would simply move our desks and play dodgeball in the classroom. This got a few strange looks from people from other towns. We also didn't have a hot lunch program until halfway through first grade, and even then the "lunch ladies" (which turned out to be volunteers) turned out to be food). Since the school expanded, in third grade we wound up having classroom in a trailer (interesting note: that was pretty great, considering we were the only place in the school that had central air. old school problems).

In first grade, they had an addition to the school to give us a gym and a cafeteria, an art and music room, an expanded library, a new principal's office few more dedicated rooms, and even an auditorium. Even though we had a philanthropist fronting a decent chunk of the cost, the voters didn't want their taxes to go up, so they left the school the same for three more years. Even in the downsized addition plan, we didn't have a cafeteria, an auditorium, and a few more areas were shrunk. Hell, "art-in-a-cart" still exists at our school because it's easier to transport art items than haul a whole piano and a cart full of musical instruments around school.

You get the point - having a small-town elementary school was a very interesting experience, and the more "conservative" members of our town (hell, in 2008 we only went O by 7 votes, and even though we were represented by Hassan Ovide of all people won by 60) weren't big on tax increases. I'm not one to believe in shady stuff, but I think my diagnosis was part of the gravy train.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.097 seconds with 14 queries.