Which do you think has a greater likelihood of happening?
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  Which do you think has a greater likelihood of happening?
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Poll
Question: see below
#1
Republicans cave in and adopt a pro-gay marriage stance
 
#2
Democrats cave in and accept a more anti-immigration stance
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 43

Author Topic: Which do you think has a greater likelihood of happening?  (Read 847 times)
They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
20RP12
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« on: July 22, 2014, 01:22:10 PM »

Both seem incredibly unlikely, but I recently read an article that some Republicans are becoming softer towards the idea of legal gay marriage, but immigration is also a pretty hot button issue that Democrats probably won't cave on. I'd have to say option 1, but neither would happen anytime remotely soon.
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Cathcon
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2014, 01:24:57 PM »

I've never heard any discussion pertaining towards the latter, so I'll go with the first one.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2014, 01:35:59 PM »

Option 1, though Republicans won't put it in their platform in the near future. 
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2014, 01:40:52 PM »

Republicans will cave first because the younger generation, which overwhelmingly supports it, will eventually take over the GOP. I think the Democrats are savvier to the trends of the younger voters and that sort of thing will cost the Republicans in the long haul if they don't adapt.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2014, 01:48:25 PM »

 
Both seem incredibly unlikely, but I recently read an article that some Republicans are becoming softer towards the idea of legal gay marriage, but immigration is also a pretty hot button issue that Democrats probably won't cave on. I'd have to say option 1, but neither would happen anytime remotely soon.
I disagree. Five Republican Senators now support gay marriage, and quite a few Congressmen do as well. Also, the Ron Paul generation is going to take over the Republican Party-in fact, a vast majority of the young Republican operatives I have worked with on a few campaigns are all influenced by Ron Paul. This tidal wave of libertarianism that is going to hit the GOP in the next five years will greatly reshape the way the party looks at most issues.

I certainly hope the GOP continues to keep up the hardline views on immigration. A moderate GOP nominee who is ambivalent on Obamacare ("I don't like it, but I won't abolish it"), non interventionist on foreign policy, and is economically conservative but with a touch of Buchananesque populism is absolutely what the Republican Party needs right now.
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They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
20RP12
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2014, 02:10:25 PM »

Also, the Ron Paul generation is going to take over the Republican Party-in fact, a vast majority of the young Republican operatives I have worked with on a few campaigns are all influenced by Ron Paul. This tidal wave of libertarianism that is going to hit the GOP in the next five years will greatly reshape the way the party looks at most issues.

Don't hold your breath on the five years thing. And besides, isn't the Ron Paul position "leave it to the states"? Which is pretty much already the GOP position, or at least the position that's vocalized by a lot of the young GOPhers. Which isn't a pro gay marriage stance. It's an "i don't want to talk about it, so this is my cop out mechanism" stance.
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ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 02:13:25 PM »

Also, the Ron Paul generation is going to take over the Republican Party-in fact, a vast majority of the young Republican operatives I have worked with on a few campaigns are all influenced by Ron Paul. This tidal wave of libertarianism that is going to hit the GOP in the next five years will greatly reshape the way the party looks at most issues.

Don't hold your breath on the five years thing. And besides, isn't the Ron Paul position "leave it to the states"? Which is pretty much already the GOP position, or at least the position that's vocalized by a lot of the young GOPhers. Which isn't a pro gay marriage stance. It's an "i don't want to talk about it, so this is my cop out mechanism" stance.
Most young Ron Paul supporters happen to be in favor of gay marriage in their own states, and it is highly likely that at least 45 states will have gay marriage legal before the next election, if the SCOTUS doesn't legalize it nationwide by that point. So the GOP is likely to come around on the issue by 2020, especially as the evangelicals die by the day.
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They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
20RP12
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2014, 02:16:24 PM »

I think their position will be a pro-states rights one until it no longer can be, such as in the event that SCOTUS makes it legal nationwide. They don't seem to be very pleased about the courts legalizing it in the individual states from what I've seen though, which seems slightly hypocritical. "Them damn activist judges and their following of exactly what we wanted them to do. Commies."
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2014, 02:38:20 PM »

Why would the Dems move right on immigration? A majority of the country agrees with them.
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Never
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2014, 02:49:13 PM »
« Edited: July 22, 2014, 02:52:03 PM by Never »

Why would the Dems move right on immigration? A majority of the country agrees with them.

Not necessarily...
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Goldwater
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 02:49:45 PM »

The first one will happen at some point in time, the second one won't.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 02:58:50 PM »

I don't see why the Democrats would become anti-immigration anytime soon, considering the fact that their base is more heavily composed of minorities than ever before.

On the other hand, more and more people even within their own party are starting to disagree with the GOP on gay marriage.
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Anton Kreitzer
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2014, 06:29:43 PM »

Option 1 I can see happening within a decade, Option 2? Nah.

Also, by "anti-immigration", do you mean illegal, legal or both?
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dead0man
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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2014, 07:53:29 AM »

I still don't understand why the left wants more people in the country driving down wages at low skilled positions.  I mean, I get that they want the votes, and I suppose that's all that matters to most of them, but surely some must see that mass immigration of unskilled workers is very bad for the unskilled workers already here.
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TNF
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2014, 08:38:12 AM »

I still don't understand why the left wants more people in the country driving down wages at low skilled positions.  I mean, I get that they want the votes, and I suppose that's all that matters to most of them, but surely some must see that mass immigration of unskilled workers is very bad for the unskilled workers already here.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-immigrant tirade.
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They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
20RP12
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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2014, 09:15:18 AM »

Also, by "anti-immigration", do you mean illegal, legal or both?

Illegal immigration.
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TNF
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2014, 09:21:25 AM »

How could the Democrats feasibly adopt a tougher anti-illegal immigration stance? Obama has deported more illegal immigrants than any President in U.S. history.
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They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
20RP12
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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2014, 09:47:54 AM »

How could the Democrats feasibly adopt a tougher anti-illegal immigration stance? Obama has deported more illegal immigrants than any President in U.S. history.

Rhetoric =/= action. Regardless of how he's handled the immigration issue, the party has still articulated a pro-illegal immigrant (not necessarily a pro-illegal immigration) stance. Feasibly speaking, I'm talking about settling on both issues. Perhaps not within 10 years, but maybe 20-30, though honestly I was just trying to pick an issue that Democrats are hardline on now.
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RR1997
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2014, 09:55:26 AM »

Option 1, obviously.
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TNF
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« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2014, 10:14:34 AM »

How could the Democrats feasibly adopt a tougher anti-illegal immigration stance? Obama has deported more illegal immigrants than any President in U.S. history.

Rhetoric =/= action. Regardless of how he's handled the immigration issue, the party has still articulated a pro-illegal immigrant (not necessarily a pro-illegal immigration) stance. Feasibly speaking, I'm talking about settling on both issues. Perhaps not within 10 years, but maybe 20-30, though honestly I was just trying to pick an issue that Democrats are hardline on now.

Neither party is remotely "pro-illegal immigrant." The rhetoric of Obama and the Democrats is that of a 'path to citizenship', 'background checks', 'fines and requirements to learn English', and deportations for those who do not abide in that process. A truly pro-undocumented worker policy would be one that ends ICE raids, grants immediate and unconditional amnesty (with no fines, no requirements to learn English or any of that nativist nonsense) to undocumented workers and recognizes open borders with Canada and Mexico alike.
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« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2014, 10:21:57 AM »

TNF if you think Obama is right-wing on the issue of immigration, you should see the average European party on the issue. Sad

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They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
20RP12
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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2014, 10:23:27 AM »

Neither party is remotely "pro-illegal immigrant." The rhetoric of Obama and the Democrats is that of a 'path to citizenship', 'background checks', 'fines and requirements to learn English', and deportations for those who do not abide in that process. A truly pro-undocumented worker policy would be one that ends ICE raids, grants immediate and unconditional amnesty (with no fines, no requirements to learn English or any of that nativist nonsense) to undocumented workers and recognizes open borders with Canada and Mexico alike.

We're speaking relatively, of course. Your pro-illegal immigrant stance, let's be honest, is so far out of the mainstream that Democrats couldn't articulate it without being reprimanded. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you stance, I agree 100%, but in terms of what the Democrats can articulate in regards to this issue, they're about as left as they can get on the issue while still relatively appeasing the mainstream voter, or at least sparking a debate.
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