Update XVI: Sidejackin' it in the Train Room.

[J-Mann]

Hey, folks, Allison and I have parted ways.  We parted as very good friends and in a mutual agreement.  Please don't mock me for this.

Don't expect any mockery from me, but surely you know that the forum will expect a full report on this.

Eraserhead: what a way to start a new season!

[J-Mann]

This was pretty shocking news. I thought they just had a nice brunch at Dennys?

My guess is that Daddy Allison had a very frank conversation with Daughter Allison regarding her beau.

[J-Mann]

It's a relaxing Saturday evening in progress. I've got one more baseball game to watch tonight - Cleveland Indians vs. Kansas City Royals. I will do my laundry after the game is over at 21:00 with the hopes of being in bed by 00:00. I will be going back to Lynn Lane Baptist Church tomorrow morning with Sunday School at 9:15 and the Morning Worship Service at 10:30. I am planning a Walmart run for tomorrow afternoon after church. I'm also getting excited about going back to work on Monday for Week 4!!

Do you have the washer and dryer at your place or do you have to go to a laundromat?

[J-Mann]

She was probably under pressure from her father. As to why she would give a deadline for her own decision ... who knows? Facing an impending engagement and marriage is a big deal, and she may have said, "I need some time to think about whether I'm ready for all this ... I promise I'll have an answer by next Friday." And Mr. Jitters thought, "Well f[inks] you! If you can't share my predilection for rushing major life decisions, then you're not the gal for me!"

Speculation, of course.

Oh, and Indy ... it's not a net loss of six pounds. If we're looking at the entire history of the update, we're at a net gain of, what, 35+ pounds?

You're headed in the right direction, Jeff, but I'll continue to tell you to try more-radical means than self-regulation (which has resulted in this net gain). You need a personal trainer.

[J-Mann]

I told her I needed to focus on establishing myself in this job and she said she needed to focus on her health.

She broke up with you because you were getting fatter and she was getting slimmer?

I promise you there was nothing "slim" about that woman, aside from her chances of keeping both feet past age 40.

[J-Mann]

Heard?  So I'm not the only one who listens to the audiobook version of Update (narrated by Benedict Cumberpatch)?

Oh dear lord, no...I got the limited collectors edition Harvey Fierstein narration.

Jeff's posts are significantly better when read in Droopy's voice. The ones where he's stubbornly adamant that he's right when he's so very clearly wrong ("I did have an extra cheeseburger, but I've been doing well on my diet and deserve to treat myself once in a while.") are the best.

I told her I needed to focus on establishing myself in this job and she said she needed to focus on her health.

She broke up with you because you were getting fatter and she was getting slimmer?

I promise you there was nothing "slim" about that woman, aside from her chances of keeping both feet past age 40.

....this is hands down the best thing I've heard in forever...make love to me?

a/s/l?

[J-Mann]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Agree. What happened to keeping this job while looking for another? According to you, they don't mind people taking time off, so when the time comes to take calls and interviews, they'd be fine with it.

I think has more to do with your fear of / inability to multitask, as predicted in your psychological profile. You didn't even do laundry yesterday, because ... baseball.

[J-Mann]

Also, don't turn in a notice. You know full well that a call canter isn't going to let you sit around and soak up more "training" money. You'll likely be walked out immediately.

Keep it until you find something else.

[J-Mann]

Gee whiz, guys, calm down and take a chill pill.  I'm only doing this after consulting with my parents and letting her take stock of her financial situation.  I'm alright, and hopefully, I will get a better job soon.  Only I know all the intricacies of my situation.  You guys are free to have your opinions and voice them, but I know what I'm doing.  This may come as a surprise, but I do have a strong head on my shoulders and I am very cognizant of what's going on around me.

It wouldn't come as a surprise. It would come as an M. Night Shyamalan-in-his-prime plot twist.

If we don't know the situation, then inform us. Either you were fired already, or you're preparing to make another bonehead move. We've told you all along to keep this and find something else in the meantime. The only reasons that would fall through would be either you've already been relieved of your duties there, or you have a total inability to do two simple things at once.

Admit it. You were fired, Allison dumped you as a result, and now it's Mr. and Mrs. Magoo to the rescue yet again.

[J-Mann]

The honest truth:  I have not been fired.  However, I will go into work in the morning and turn in my 3-days notice, under the full readiness that they may walk me out.  The thing with giving my notice is to be courteous.  I will go in and be prepared to stay all day, if that's what they want.  I am prepared for whatever happens.

The fact is I can't look for a job effectively when I'm working 8-5 with a 30-minute lunch, have no access to my cell phone while I'm on the floor itself.  Yes, I can call them back during lunch, but it's likely their lunch hour, as well.  The policies for phone use is different on the floor side-jacking or taking calls than it is in the classroom.  I look for most jobs online, but the employers generally call me to set up an interview.  I also go out and look for jobs, which is not obsolete.  Ever heard of temp agencies?   I basically don't want my hands tied while trying to play ball, if you will.

Yes, Inks, I know exactly what I'm doing.  You are free to question that, but you will not change my mind.

Three days' notice isn't courtesy -- it's insulting. If you were important to an organization's operation, you would do them harm with such short notice. Where you're nothing to this organization, you will be let go immediately -- you'll find that the money isn't thrown around quite as liberally as you've been led to believe.

So if you want another three days' pay, don't say anything till Wednesday. Better yet, just stay there. If an employer is interested in interviewing you, they'll leave a message. Then you can get back to them during your lunch break (it wouldn't hurt you to miss a meal). THAT'S HOW A LOT OF PEOPLE DO IT, JEFF. TRUST ME TRUST ME TRUST ME TRUST ME TRUST ME I AM EXPONENTIALLY MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN YOU AND TELLING YOU THAT IT'S OK NOT TO PICK UP IMMEDIATELY WHEN A PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYER CALLS.

You are hurting your parents more than anyone with this utterly foolish move, because, once again, they'll have to foot 100% of the bills for their inept 32-year-old son. That's not to say they're not the worst enablers I've ever seen ... they're bad. But if YOU want to help THEM, as you shallowly claim all the time, then keep your damn job and act like a normal adult male who is capable of juggling two simple tasks at once.

[J-Mann]

You know what guys, I don't have to listen to this crap anymore.  I'm going back to politics for a while.

I tell you what, Rockefeller -- since you've got such a great head on your shoulders, show us all how it's done. I mean, that's what you've been doing for years, right? Teaching each and every one of us here how to be successful. You've conquered obesity, pull in six figures a year, landed your dream girl and set your family on a path toward comfortable retirement. Right? RIGHT?

Jeff, we're the ones who put up with crap. Your crap. Your ridiculous mockery of a normal life. And some of us put time and effort into legitimately trying to help your worthless butt, only to have our advice rejected over and over again because you think you're smarter than everyone in the room. How's that working out for you?

You actually had a reasonable plan -- to keep your current job while looking for a new one, but for some reason, you've given up YET AGAIN. And doing so makes no sense. It's like you pick the absolute most-illogical path forward and take it in spite of the common sense and experience of others screaming otherwise.

Since you're a hotshot salesman now and hotshot salesmen like to take risks, I'll make you a bet, Jeff. I'm employed more than full time, since I'm on a corporate executive team. I'm in the middle of a move and am trying to manage the sale of a house. I have a long-term relationship, family and friends that I try to put above my own leisure time. In other words, I have a life.

I'll keep doing that life, and also apply for entry level jobs in Tulsa. S[hit] jobs like entry-level accounting and things like that. CADD jobs, even. I'm totally not qualified. I don't even live there, so there's no way I could do an on-site interview. Hell, I can't even get back to potential employers in a reasonable amount of time, because of the whole managing-a-life thing.

So here's the bet -- you keep your job now and do what you told us you'd do: apply for other things. And if you find something and land a better spot before I do, I'll buy you a month's worth of personal training / nutritional guidance / life coaching ... whatever we determine is best and most-achievable to you.

If I land a job in Tulsa before you, then you never post another inane and self-deluded rambling on this or any other site again. Because it's too goddamn frustrating when some of us have legitimately tried to help you to repeatedly see the same cycle of failure.

You know you're doing the wrong thing, and yet you pat yourself on the back for it.

[J-Mann]

Submitted for your approval, two men, J-Mann and Inks, lead a ring of posters who try to give advice to a man trying to improve his own life. Little do they realize that not only is the advice they give ignored, they have been repeating themselves in an endless cycle for years. Little do these men realize, they have not logged onto just any internet forum, they have logged on permanently to the Twilight Zone.

Literally LOLed. I suppose the fact that I've been posting the same advice here over and over again for years only to have it ignored makes me crazier than Bushie.

Basically, folks, I am listening to all of your concerns and I am mulling over all of my options right now.  You guys are bringing up valid arguments and I've spent the past little while trying to talk myself into hanging onto the job and at least trying to look in the evenings and do what has been discussed here.  I'm also mulling over my options if I take my parents' advice to quit, figuring out what my first moves would be.  I have already found one job fair I can go to anytime this week Tuesday-Friday.  Then again, if I held onto this job, at least I would have a paycheck coming in.  It is money in the bank for now and I can get on the phones and do the best I can.  There are pros and cons to both decisions.  The cons of hanging onto this job is I might potentially miss out on some opportunities just by not being available to interview at a moment's notice. The cons of quitting is that I run the risk of being out of a job for quite some time.  The pros of hanging onto this job is the aforementioned paycheck, but also that some employers prefer someone who already is working as opposed to someone who is sitting at home during the day looking.  The pros of quitting now is I can go all-in on the job search immediately once I get home. I have a big decision to make.

No one interviews on "a moment's notice" for jobs. You could "go all-in on the job search" already if you didn't spend all your evenings and weekends watching baseball and visiting your parents all the time.

Hell, he could apply for jobs as he has the baseball game.  Also, exactly right on  the moments notice thing.  That simply isn't done.  If someone is calling you for an inerview it isn't like they are going to have the position filled by the next day.  You call back, set up a time within a few days, take a half day and go to the interview.  That is how it works Bushie, that is what employers do.

This is correct. If employers are interested in you, they'll work with you to schedule interviews. Good HR folks will make calls after-hours, too.

The jobs that allow or demand interviews on a moment's notice are the jobs like the one you have now. Easy in, easy out.

[J-Mann]

I have made my decision after sleeping on it and I'm going to make the unpopular decision of pulling the plug and then get started on the job search as soon as I get back home.

As long as you can squeeze in an application or two between baseball games, I'm sure it'll be alright.

How about I look for jobs during baseball games?  I can do that, too.

Since when?

[J-Mann]

Do yourself a favor and stay out of customer service. For real. It's not you and you're not good at it.

Did you ever stop to think about how easily you land all these customer service jobs and then how quickly things "fall through?" That's because they're churn-and-burn environments for which you're not suited.

You made a bonehead move by giving up a position in order to look for a job "full time." Alright, so now you're looking full time. Make the most of it. Don't oafishly accept the first thing that comes along, as this call center / customer service opportunity obviously will be. Make the best of the situations you create for yourself and find something that fits you!

If you don't, we'll be having this exact same dialog in a month, where you've been whisked on board into a position at which you cannot succeed and -- through either dismissal or your own realization that you don't fit -- soon after leave to start the cycle over again.

And you'd be wise to share the name of the company with a few of us so we can help you out.

[J-Mann]

This all sounds familiar ...

Jeff -- choosing to believe that you are indeed telling the truth about all of your recent mishaps, I think you need to go beyond your "self-prescribed therapy" of posting every detail of your life here and actually seek legitimate help.

Many of us are offering, but we've been ignored or told we "don't really know" you for months; our advice, by and large, has been rebuffed. That's why you need to find a neutral party -- a therapist -- that can help you overcome what really has become a disturbing pattern of self-delusion followed by predictable failure.

And I don't mean talking to your parents about it, nor anyone from your church. You don't need enablers right now, and as near as any of us can tell from your story, they've enabled every bit of this expensive bullheadedness by refraining from giving sound, honest and realistic advice. You need professional help.

I seriously don't understand your aversion to taking the advice of the people who attempt to engage you in a reasonable process of thinking through decisions. And I know it's "just an internet forum," but hopefully some of us -- myself included -- have shown you that you're more than just an object of mockery (though you lend yourself to that quite well through your ignorance).

You can't believe that your vetting process is working -- you "left no stone unturned" and nearly fell for an obvious money-laundering scam, only abandoning it when forum members here presented you with absolute irrefutable proof of what it was.

Personally, I think you need to put yourself on pause (except for the hunt for a real job) for a while and get truly introspective about the life choices you've made and admit that they were wrong. Realize that trying to justify a poor decision can lead to even worse situations (ie: you were going to give ON-Company "a chance" despite literally dozens of people telling you it was a scam).

And get professional help. Yes, the kind you have to pay for. I believe you have something seriously wrong that is impairing your judgment and decision-making abilities ... and if you say that you don't, you're just being delusional again. The last month of decision-making on your end should be proof of that.

There's no such thing as "a string of bad luck." You make your own luck. You've chosen poorly, and now you need to face up to that.

[J-Mann]

Wow, over the span of this short season, I have been vilely insulted, called mentally ill, my parents have been insulted and reviled, my friends have been insulted and called mentally ill because they "don't see the real me."  I am not going to subject myself and the ones I love to this type of childish attacks.  You guys are completely pathetic.  You give no thought to how a person might feel.  You all seem to think you are 100% correct 100% of the time and that I am never correct.  You guys are just flat arrogant and wrong.  I have done nothing wrong and my parents and friends have done nothing wrong.

This ends the Update once and for all.

I actually don't feel like you have any sort of severe mental illness or need "that" kind of therapy, as I used to. Rather, your situations are most likely spurred by two things:

 - An overwhelming midwestern optimism, where you want so badly to have a stereotypical "normal" life that you keep forcing yourself into situations that are either ill-planned or poor fits for who you really are. Think about it, and if it helps to see the cycle, go back and actually read all the previous Updates ... it's the same stories over and over again: rushed relationships, forced jobs and edification from those around you that dilutes the magnitude of your mistakes.

 - I think you have a very powerful lazy streak, and even when you are well aware of the "correct" path (ie: keeping your job while looking for new ones, eating healthier, etc.), you take the easy way out. And, again, you're given a free pass by those closest to you. I'm not saying my parents wouldn't bail me out if I was struggling ... I'm saying mine would have had enough after the first time and would have expected me to learn from my mistakes.

You're not wrong all the time, Jeff ... CADD school has the potential to have been a good investment. There are little things here and there that you do well, and they're acknowledged. You just can't expect me or anyone else on the forum to cheer laziness or, when you have choices, your purposeful selection of the worse choice. If you want to be recognized for the things you do right, and if you want to be spoken to in a more-respectful manner, treat this community with the same recognition and respect in return.

You get some great advice from us at times, and when you throw it back in our faces or outright reject it, it's an even deeper level of disrespect than the surface-level insults that are shot across your bow from time to time. Some of us have been where you're at, made good choices and succeeded ... and we're trying to help you down that same path.

[J-Mann]

On the employment issue.  The object right now is to get a paycheck, even if that is customer service.  I have pretty much decided against the interview I had scheduled for tomorrow.  J-Mann and Smash did a good job of that, as well, because of the majority sales aspect.  However, there is another call center that I am going to look at tomorrow.  This is with a big-name company.  It's likely a job where I will be hired on the spot, but I think it will have more structure, which was my biggest reason for leaving the job I was at.  I firmly believe that I can do well in call centers if I just put my mind to it.  The calls no longer frighten me as they once did.  I can fix my attendance issues with a little hard work and dedication.  Again, my goal is to make this unemployment a very short one.  I do not want to drag this out any longer than it has to.  I know I have just given you the definition of insanity, but I've got to do what I think is best for me, even if that is an unconventional approach.  The possibility exists that I may fail yet again.  I realize that.  I still think, though, there is merit to the strategy that my parents and I are deploying.

The bolded sentences are the bits that are baffling and, quite frankly, disrespectful to us.

Your goal is to get a paycheck. The thing is, you had a paycheck, even if it was a crappy job. You had a paycheck as of this morning. You chose to reject our advice to keep that paycheck while looking for a job that fits you better in favor of quitting to look "full time."

The baffling parts: your goal of being able to look full time was originally a desire to get something better suited for you, and to be able to devote all of your time and energy to that search. Now, that goal has changed into "just a paycheck," and you seem ready to jump back into the call center racket again.

Equally frustrating for us: it is all but scientific law that you will not succeed in a call center. You've had half-a-dozen call center jobs, and either been let go or disliked them so much that you left. Your background and education lends itself much better to back-office positions wherein you could find a career and some stability. And I've shown you with scientific validation that a customer-facing, call-center role will put inordinate amounts of stress on your psyche, because at your core, they're not who you are or where you can be your best. It'd be like me trying to compete with Olympic sprinters ... my willpower will never overcome my body's innate lack of ability, and as your four-hour nap today validates, your willpower isn't exactly the strongest!

How do you explain all of that? THIS, Jeff ... this is what frustrates people and why you receive such harsh rebukes. This is why people accuse you of mental illness. Because this pattern, which has happened for years (although much of it repeated itself in just the last 24 hours), continues and you do not seem to learn.

[J-Mann]

Custodian may be tough, given the physical concerns you've discussed, although there are usually administrative positions at schools ... few, though, where you wouldn't have to interact with horrible children and their even-worse parents.

I was thinking something like this may be more appropriate: https://careers-postacutemedical.icims.com/jobs/2063/charge-entry-clerk/job?mode=job&iis=Job+Board+-+Indeed.com&iisn=Indeed.com&mobile=false&width=543&height=500&bga=true&needsRedirect=false

Granted, that's based on two minutes of research, so listen to the rest of the community if they say it's bunk.

[J-Mann]

has anyone mentioned it would be much more efficient to apply online?  oh yeah, almost everyone has suggested that...

I do that, too, but there are some cases where face-to-face interactions have not gone out of style.  How do you possibly get immediate interviews when you apply at home?  That kind of thing does happen.

No job that is going to be worth taking will be likely to give an immediate interview.

I agree with this. Great companies are busy, and busy people making those great companies run can't drop everything to take an interview at a moment's notice. If you're looking for a career, expect the organization to have a hiring process that is lengthier than a handshake.

[J-Mann]

I'm home from the two interviews.  First one was a bust.  They were selling life insurance and union benefits to gullible union members.  I sat and listened to the 45 minute presentation (time I will never get back), but when it was time to give our thoughts on the feedback form and if we wanted to pursue this, I got up and walked out.  I've done life insurance before.  Been there.  Done that.   Almost got the t-shirt.  The second interview took a whopping 3 minutes - 2 minutes 30 seconds of that waiting.  Since I had previously applied to that staffing agency for other positions, all he did was take my name and number and submit my name to the actual client.  I've never heard back from this particular staffing agency on any of the jobs I applied for, so I'm still not sure they don't have phantom job openings.  All in all, I think today was a bust.  Not to mention it was pouring down rain the entire time.  I got soaked to the bone for nothing...  Oh well, at least I didn't fall for that life insurance.   To be quite honest, it sounded like a slightly better version of Ameriplan.

Here's something that is confusing to me: how do you not know what you're supposed to be interviewing for until you're there? I can see keeping the name of a company confidential until you're deeper in the hiring process if you're working through a recruiter, but to not even know what the job is? How is that possible? You are at a point, Jeff, where you shouldn't be getting surprised in interviews. It's probably best that you don't respond to the vague postings that promise the potential of high wages and don't say what you'll be doing. It's best to work directly through a company's HR department, find roles on their websites and not on job boards, and work through recruiters, not staffing agencies.

[J-Mann]

I'm home from the two interviews.  First one was a bust.  They were selling life insurance and union benefits to gullible union members.  I sat and listened to the 45 minute presentation (time I will never get back), but when it was time to give our thoughts on the feedback form and if we wanted to pursue this, I got up and walked out.  I've done life insurance before.  Been there.  Done that.   Almost got the t-shirt.  The second interview took a whopping 3 minutes - 2 minutes 30 seconds of that waiting.  Since I had previously applied to that staffing agency for other positions, all he did was take my name and number and submit my name to the actual client.  I've never heard back from this particular staffing agency on any of the jobs I applied for, so I'm still not sure they don't have phantom job openings.  All in all, I think today was a bust.  Not to mention it was pouring down rain the entire time.  I got soaked to the bone for nothing...  Oh well, at least I didn't fall for that life insurance.   To be quite honest, it sounded like a slightly better version of Ameriplan.

Here's something that is confusing to me: how do you not know what you're ping to be interviewing for until you're there? I can see keeping the name of a company confidential until you're deeper in the hiring process if you're working through a recruiter, but to not even know what the job is? How is that possible? You are at a point, Jeff, where you shouldn't be getting surprised in interviews. It's probably best that you don't respond to the vague postings that promise the potential of high wars and don't say what you'll be doing. It's best to work directly through a company's HR department, find roles on their websites and not on job boards, and work through recruiters, not staffing agencies.

I have worked with Recruiters and staffing agencies in the past (though didn't land a job through them).  When I used them, there were times I knew the potential employer, there were times I didn't, but I always had some type of knowledge of what the position was about, what in entailed, etc through the conversation I had over the phone prior to the inrerview, as well as the job posting itself.

I definitely had an idea of the objectives of the position, but I didn't know the means to achieving said objectives would be selling life insurance.  That part wasn't disclosed on the ad.

I would avoid those types of postings, or at least make a phone call for very clear information on the position first. That would be like me posting this:

Work for an entrepreneurial-minded company in a fast-paced and exciting environment! Work with many diverse customers! Make money!

... and then you showing up and finding out it's a sales job. Good jobs and good job postings will give you an idea of both goals and responsibilities.

[J-Mann]

Seems legit enough -- based on just a few minutes of checking them out. The process was likely so hurried and unstructured because they're a) incredibly small and don't have any official HR function, and b) looking for someone entry level to trial for 90 days.

My advice, Jeff: do what you need to do to make REAL improvements -- even if they are small -- in your health. A grade-whatever headache that keeps you homebound during your second week on this trial, particularly if absences continue to be as much of a problem as they usually are for you, isn't going to impress.

[J-Mann]

Bushie, don't even dream about missing a day of work during this 90 day trial.

I've got two doctor's appointments in September.  I will postpone them until January.

He may have been referring to absences due to illnesses you cause yourself, like upset stomachs due to bad food or headaches due to lethargy. The doctor visits could actually help, and I'm not sure an employer would begrudge you for taking a few hours off for them.

[J-Mann]

I'm really hoping and praying that I can not only meet their expectations in the first 90 days, but knock their socks off with how well I pick it up and how well I do.  I really need to make this work, because eventually Dad will need to retire.  The projected time for his retirement is only 7 years away, and they've got a car to pay off as well as needing to get their finances ready to drop down to two retirement paychecks.  The sooner I can get off their dole, the better off I and they will be.  I've got a great opportunity to do just that starting in a little under 40 hours.

How old are your parents?

[J-Mann]

I'm really hoping and praying that I can not only meet their expectations in the first 90 days, but knock their socks off with how well I pick it up and how well I do.  I really need to make this work, because eventually Dad will need to retire.  The projected time for his retirement is only 7 years away, and they've got a car to pay off as well as needing to get their finances ready to drop down to two retirement paychecks.  The sooner I can get off their dole, the better off I and they will be.  I've got a great opportunity to do just that starting in a little under 40 hours.

How old are our parents?

Mom is 61 and Dad is 62.

And seven years from retirement!? Good grief ... what do they do again?