Is the death penalty justice or revenge?

[Sbane]

Just something I was thinking of while reading about the Arizona case. I feel it is revenge, which is not necessarily an attack on the death penalty. I think it is natural for family members to want revenge and one cannot fault them for that. Still, we should stop pretending the death penalty is justice.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No act so absolute as killing could ever be called justice.

[Franzl]

No act so absolute as killing could ever be called justice.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

No reason why it can't be both.  It doesn't matter at all if there is an element of revenge, so long as justice is involved.

[tik 🪀✨]

Measured revenge is a very basic form of justice. So, I do think that in some terrible situations the death penalty serves as justice for a few people, or for society, when considered by itself.

However, the death penalty in the real world means much more than punishment for one person. The permanence of death goes too far. The fact that the State is responsible for overseeing the controlled ending of human life ought to be terrifying for the small government conservative as well. Weird bunch.

I'd say that the death penalty prioritizes revenge over justice. And it's icky.

[bedstuy]

The family is irrelevant, after all the punishment is the result of a case like "The State of Arizona vs. Johnson," not "The Family of John Q. Public vs. Johnson."

The justice element is fairly obvious and barbaric in a way I suppose.  It's an eye for an eye.  You took a life, we'll take yours.  That could be framed as revenge, but it's just in how you look at it.

[afleitch]

No act so absolute as killing could ever be called justice.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

No act so absolute as killing could ever be called justice.

[ElectionsGuy]

It is revenge, undoubtedly, for the state to do the same thing that the criminal did. Killing should not be considered justice.

[rosin]

"Justice" is just another word for revenge endorsed by the authorities.

[Roemerista]

Our legal system has nothing to do with "justice." It's all about revenge.

[muon2]

Suppose a convicted serial killer is sentenced to natural life in prison without parole. While in prison the killer manages to fabricate a knife and kills a prison guard. There is no additional incarceration that the justice system can add to the killer's sentence. If the death penalty is used in this case, I would consider it justice, not revenge.

[Franzl]

Suppose a convicted serial killer is sentenced to natural life in prison without parole. While in prison the killer manages to fabricate a knife and kills a prison guard. There is no additional incarceration that the justice system can add to the killer's sentence. If the death penalty is used in this case, I would consider it justice, not revenge.

To be honest, that's more an argument against sentences without parole than a justification for capital punishment.

By all means, keep some people locked up for the rest of their natural lives, but it should be subject to review after a certain amount of time in the vast majority of cases. It's ok if the result is that parole shouldn't be granted for whatever reason, but taking away all hope takes away any incentive to rehabilitate.

[AggregateDemand]

If capital punishment is revenge, it's the lamest form of revenge in history.

Capital punishment is obviously a lazy misadventure on our journey to create sophisticated prison systems and enforcement agencies.

[muon2]

Suppose a convicted serial killer is sentenced to natural life in prison without parole. While in prison the killer manages to fabricate a knife and kills a prison guard. There is no additional incarceration that the justice system can add to the killer's sentence. If the death penalty is used in this case, I would consider it justice, not revenge.

To be honest, that's more an argument against sentences without parole than a justification for capital punishment.

By all means, keep some people locked up for the rest of their natural lives, but it should be subject to review after a certain amount of time in the vast majority of cases. It's ok if the result is that parole shouldn't be granted for whatever reason, but taking away all hope takes away any incentive to rehabilitate.

I wanted to illustrate that capital punishment need not be used as revenge, but can be part of a justice system. It becomes the punishment when all other punishments are exhausted.

Your observation raises a different issue. I would not confuse justice with rehabilitation, they aren't the same thing. The state can choose to use the time a convict is serving to facilitate rehabilitation, but that is not the same as justice. Most data I've seen suggests that intentional rehabilitation by the state is ineffective, but providing opportunities for rehabilitation means that a few convicts will take advantage of those opportunities and rehabilitate themselves.

[GaussLaw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f7nGWPvnKw

[Sbane]

Suppose a convicted serial killer is sentenced to natural life in prison without parole. While in prison the killer manages to fabricate a knife and kills a prison guard. There is no additional incarceration that the justice system can add to the killer's sentence. If the death penalty is used in this case, I would consider it justice, not revenge.

That is an interesting case you bring up and I would agree with you in this particular case. In order to keep society safe, we would need to kill a person like that.

For the most part though, the death penalty is just government sanctioned revenge killing. I can see how that could be fine in really heinous cases like the rape/murder of the PT student in India(where the death penalty was used after a long time) or the Boston marathon bombers, but the death penalty really needs to be used much more selectively than it is today in America. It should not be used for every random gang member who shoots another gang member.

[TDAS04]

No act so absolute as killing could ever be called justice.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

It's definitely both.

[Vosem]

It's a false dichotomy -- "justice" and "revenge" are very, very frequently -- perhaps most of the time -- the same thing. Since I support the death penalty and justice has more positive connotations I voted for that, but the distinction is totally meaningless.

[Deus Naturae]

No act so absolute as killing could ever be called justice.

I'm against the death but I really don't get what you guys are trying to say here. An action can't be just if it's absolute?

[H. Ross Peron]

It has aspects of both.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No act so absolute as killing could ever be called justice.

I'm against the death but I really don't get what you guys are trying to say here. An action can't be just if it's absolute?

Indeed it can't. Measure is the hallmark of justice.

[TDAS04]

While I get where the anti-death penalty people come from (I am uncomfortable with its use unless there is absolute proof of guilt, and I understand it is heavily misused), I have a question for you all: do you think that life in prison until they die of natural causes is "humane" and preferable in itself?

Spending the rest of my natural life in a prison (we're talking 60+ years here) is no better to me than execution. What reason is there to live anymore? Not to mention the enormous financial burden I would place on the state, as well as the shame of association and emotional burden I would place on my family.

Of course, I'm just speaking for myself, but I'm interested in your opinions.

FTR: voted justice, believe it's both justice and revenge.

Of course life imprisonment is harsh, and that is a good argument that the death penalty is not necessary for inflicting firm justice.  I personally believe that life imprisonment should be reserved only for the most heinous crimes, and it should not be applied to juveniles.

If life imprisonment is as harsh as death, then why is the death penalty necessary?  I get the argument that life behind bars is as bad, but for an innocent person sentenced to life, at least that person will have the the rest of his or her natural life to hope for exoneration.

[GaussLaw]

No act so absolute as killing could ever be called justice.

I'm against the death but I really don't get what you guys are trying to say here. An action can't be just if it's absolute?

Indeed it can't. Measure is the hallmark of justice.

Do you also oppose LWOP sentences then?  Because I consider it a functional equivalent....you are sentenced to die within the perimeter of the prison.