Is cultural appropriate really a thing?

[Knives]

I mean...

http://mic.com/articles/95444/5-racist-examples-proving-why-katy-perry-is-pop-music-s-worst-cultural-appropriator

These tumblr warriors need to get off this horse, cultural appropriation is the dumbest ing thing ever.

[Simfan34]

Dave Brubeck was a cultural appropriator and should have been stopped...

"Cultural appropriation" is how cultures form,  how they change,  of course it won't stop these people from saying otherwise...

Of course,  calling what Perry is doing "cultural appropriation" is silly in that assumes that "black culture" amounts to not much more than fried chicken, watermelon, and big behinds.

[Bacon King]

Cultural appropriation is most definitely a thing but the link is just more about generic political correctness and cultural sensitivity

Cultural appropriation is more how most white musicians perform in genres that were at some point in the last century basically all stolen from people with darker skin

[traininthedistance]

It's not too hard to get away with cultural appropriation, in practice, if you've got the chops to back it up (c.f. Led Zeppelin).  If it's just lazy stealing of other another group's tropes, however, you're gonna get slammed and justifiably so.  

Basically, what it comes down to is, do you have the talent and/or sensitivity to take that risk?  If so, then great, we wouldn't have lots of great art without it.  But know that it's a risk, know that it's tricky, know how it can go wrong if you F up.

[Paul Kemp]

Isn't most of American culture pretty much just a form of cultural appropriation?

[dead0man]

Isn't most of American culture pretty much just a form of cultural appropriation?

Sure, but unless you are Sumerian that can be said for all cultures if you go back far enough.


As for the OP, I agree with what the others have said.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Tumblr SJW's are really far-right xenophobes in their own confused way given their opposition to culture mixing (and their very American/Eurocentric way of dividing people into "whites" and "POCs" and assuming history revolves solely around their relationship)

[RI]

Yes, and an inevitable thing, but it's not a bad thing in the slightest.

[Bacon King]

this is not directly related but here's a great headline about Katy Perry that I wanted to share

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/katy-perry-gatecrashes-a-childrens-birthday-party-and-makes-everyone-cry-9282152.html

[Beet]

Tumblr SJW's are really far-right xenophobes in their own confused way given their opposition to culture mixing (and their very American/Eurocentric way of dividing people into "whites" and "POCs" and assuming history revolves solely around their relationship)

Mark this day. I actually agree with Snowstalker to some extent.

[Lief 🗽]

ITT people who don't really get what cultural appropriation is but enjoy attacking strawmen anyway.

[Beet]

ITT people who don't really get what cultural appropriation is but enjoy attacking strawmen anyway.

And what do you think it is, O smart one?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What a remarkably, horrifyingly, stupid thread.

[Lief 🗽]

It has nothing to do with cultural mixing or exposing oneself to other cultures. There's nothing wrong with cultures interacting and adapting language, food, customs, dress, etc. from each other.

Cultural appropriation is when people in a dominant cultural group exploit the culture of an oppressed group without respect for that culture. Often when the person in the dominant cultural group borrows the oppressed group's culture, they are reinforcing damaging cultural stereotypes in the process (like Katy Perry dressing up as a geisha and singing "I will love you unconditionally"). It's also problematic in certain situations because the person in the dominant cultural group often gets credit and the financial rewards for inventing that piece of culture (the best example of this is rock and roll music). Ultimately it's about seeking a basic level of respect and recognition for the culture of historically marginalized peoples. Don't pretend you're celebrating Japanese culture when you're putting on yellowface and doing a china doll routine.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yes, and an inevitable thing, but it's not a bad thing in the slightest.

[Хahar 🤔]

Tumblr SJW's are really far-right xenophobes in their own confused way given their opposition to culture mixing (and their very American/Eurocentric way of dividing people into "whites" and "POCs" and assuming history revolves solely around their relationship)

I'm glad you feel better about yourself.

[Beet]

It has nothing to do with cultural mixing or exposing oneself to other cultures. There's nothing wrong with cultures interacting and adapting language, food, customs, dress, etc. from each other.

Right.

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I sort of see your point here, but [shorted from long rant] as you said, the problem isn't "cultural appropriation", it's stereotyping. And I think there's a difference between stereotyping using the dress of a geisha, which very, very few modern women of any race continue to use, versus racial stereotyping in which one uses "blackface" or "yellowface", or the realistic dress associated with an ethnic group, and then proceeds to act out stereotypes. Particularly in a negative or denigrating way.

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True, but imitation is a form of respect and recognition - one might say the ultimate form. Should white people not play rock and roll because it was invented by blacks?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Have I mentioned how idiotic (and America-centric--lumping all fair-skinned Europeans as one is pretty much limited to the USA/Canada/Argentina) the division of people into "white" and "person of color" is? Other than defining race relations by skin color it ignores the very different and complex race relations between different groups in America (suggesting that the Chinese immigrant and the descendant of Africans taken as slaves are one and the same is something mostly done by naive white liberals on the Internet) and assumes an inherent struggle akin to the division between the owning and working classes. I would also hesitate to label whites as the "dominant culture group", not only due to the geographically distinct cultures within the United States but the fact that ultimately, class is a far more reliable indicator of power than race (though the latter certainly has some say--see black incarceration rates for drug offenses despite using drugs at a lower rate than whites).

Now, some of my confusion may be that I see a lot of the nuttier SJW's who think that braiding one's hair is white supremacy, but obviously I can agree that some instances of what you would call cultural appropriation are unacceptable--that fraternity which had a "ghetto party" where kids brought fried chicken and liquor in plastic bags, or the Washington Redskins logo--that is, when the appropriation is used to mock another group of people based on their ethnicity.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I would also hesitate to label whites as the "dominant culture group", not only due to the geographically distinct cultures within the United States but the fact that ultimately, class is a far more reliable indicator of power than race (though the latter certainly has some say--see black incarceration rates for drug offenses despite using drugs at a lower rate than whites).

There's a difference between saying "whites are the dominant culture group" and "all whites are in positions of power." And in the US at least, race and class are very interrelated:



Those are median numbers for household net worth among different racial groups in America (as of 2010). 

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I would also hesitate to label whites as the "dominant culture group", not only due to the geographically distinct cultures within the United States but the fact that ultimately, class is a far more reliable indicator of power than race (though the latter certainly has some say--see black incarceration rates for drug offenses despite using drugs at a lower rate than whites).

There's a difference between saying "whites are the dominant culture group" and "all whites are in positions of power." And in the US at least, race and class are very interrelated:



Those are median numbers for household net worth among different racial groups in America (as of 2010). 

Household net worth (a lot of which comes from the pre-2007 culture that everyone needed a big generic exurban house) is not the best indicator of actual wealth. The most important factor is that the overwhelming majority of people are not receiving the full value of their labor, while the minute ruling class, while a good bit whiter than the general population, are certainly not uniformly so.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

It has nothing to do with cultural mixing or exposing oneself to other cultures. There's nothing wrong with cultures interacting and adapting language, food, customs, dress, etc. from each other.

Cultural appropriation is when people in a dominant cultural group exploit the culture of an oppressed group without respect for that culture. Often when the person in the dominant cultural group borrows the oppressed group's culture, they are reinforcing damaging cultural stereotypes in the process (like Katy Perry dressing up as a geisha and singing "I will love you unconditionally"). It's also problematic in certain situations because the person in the dominant cultural group often gets credit and the financial rewards for inventing that piece of culture (the best example of this is rock and roll music). Ultimately it's about seeking a basic level of respect and recognition for the culture of historically marginalized peoples. Don't pretend you're celebrating Japanese culture when you're putting on yellowface and doing a china doll routine.

What about the term "cultural appropriation" suggests exploitation by a dominant group?  Anyone is capable of appropriating a form from an outside culture, for a variety of reasons. A young person on an Indian Reservation may appropriate forms associated with black urban culture that resonate with them. Or an Algonquin may appropriate Mesoamerican forms for the purpose of signifying and creating a Pan-Indian identity. That person may even make a buck off of selling that identity at a powwow, and while someone might want to criticize it as profiting off a not-"authentic" culture, there are no clear universal ownership rights for symbols, no clear lines where one culture stops and another begins. 

Rock and roll, created and performed by both whites and blacks, was a transformation of earlier forms of music, largely associated with blacks - but African-American and Euro-American music have always been subject to hard to trace interactions, never completely separate entities. Performers have gotten rich not so much by claiming to invent something as by performing in a style and a context where there were people who would buy it. In the 1950s and 60s that meant white performers might have an advantage over black performers, but I don't think anyone pretended Chuck Berry never existed. With their adoption of blues and rock, the Beatles, the Stones, Clapton, etc brought a new audience to black musicians.  It was not the same as blackface - it came out of a love of the music.

[Marokai Backbeat]

This thread reminded me of an insane rant published on Time's website that basically accused gay males of "stealing black female culture." Included was some of the intellectually laziest, "this is mine, not yours, you can't have any of it" bitter complaining that seemed to have nearly nothing to do with the original point, but was instead just a retreading about how blacks are disadvantaged in society (obviously, true) and I am somehow perpetuating this everytime I've jokingly snapped my fingers at someone.

I am history's greatest monster.