Best GOP Almost-President: Thomas Dewey or Bob Dole
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  Best GOP Almost-President: Thomas Dewey or Bob Dole
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Question: Dewey or Dole?
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Thomas Dewey
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Bob Dole
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Author Topic: Best GOP Almost-President: Thomas Dewey or Bob Dole  (Read 3350 times)
Blue3
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« on: August 05, 2014, 03:13:27 AM »
« edited: August 05, 2014, 03:16:10 AM by Starwatcher »

Based off these results: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=196598.0

Here's some facts, to fill you in on their lives, policies, and interesting personalities.
(Mostly summarized from Wikipedia)








Thomas E. Dewey

*the youngest GOP presidential nominee to date at 42 years old in 1944

*prosecuted gangsters, and "white-collar" crime

*Former Governor of New York... prohibited racial discrimination in employment, created state university, created highway, doubled education funding and increased state employees' salaries while greatly reducing state debt and consolidating agencies, strong supporter of death penalty who oversaw 90 electrocutions

*yet unpopular, not likeable personally, seen as: mechanical, charmless, vindictive, cocky, stiff, cold as an iceberg,  calculating, aggressive, suspicious, opportunistic, unapproachable... Teddy Roosevelt's daughter famously mocked him as "the little man on the wedding cake"... former President Hoover said of him: "Dewey has no inner reservoir of knowledge on which to draw for his thinking. A man couldn't wear a mustache like that without having it affect his mind."

*lost to Roosevelt in 1944 and lost to Truman in 1948

*an advocate for the Northeast's professional/business community

*supported most of the New Deal, the United Nations, and a cold war with the USSR

*Nelson Rockefeller was his political successor

*his '44 campaign was about improving the New Deal by fighting its corruption, inefficiencies, and "Communist influences"... almost claimed FDR knew about Pearl Harbor beforehand, but his aides convinced him not to bring it up... otherwise stayed away from foreign policy

*his '48 campaign was about being vague, not taking risks since he was the frontrunner, speaking in platitudes... famous slogans: "You Know the Future is Ahead of You", "You Cannot Have Freedom without Liberty", etc. Truman joked that GOP stood for "grand old platitudes."

*helped secure the GOP nomination for Eisenhower in '52

*helped him choose Nixon as his running mate, and convinced Eisenhower to keep Nixon when Ike considered dropping him off the ticket

*declined to support Goldwater in '64

*President Lyndon Johnson offered him a seat on the Supreme Court, which he declined

*but Dewey did convince Johnson to choose Humphrey as his running mate in '64, so Robert Kennedy wasn't forced onto the ticket against his and Johnson's wishes

*he died in 1971 at age 68, while playing golf with Red Sox player Carl Yastrzemski, and was dating a famous actress of the time (his wife dying a year prior)








Bob Dole

*the oldest presidential nominee to date at 73 years old in 1996

*World War II veteran, was seriously injured during major combat in Italy... was significantly influenced philosophically by the doctor who treated him, who was an Armenian Genocide survivor

*RNC Chairman in early 70's, Congressman, Senator, Minority Leader, and (briefly) Majority Leader. From Kansas. Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.

*the running mate of President Ford in his unsuccessful 1976 election against Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale, came close but failed to be nominated in the 1988 primaries, and the GOP nominee himself in 1996 against Bill Clinton

*voted against Medicare and public housing when Lyndon Johnson was President, championed the "pro-life" movement, strong on crime and supported the Vietnam War

*flatly refused Bill Clinton's healthcare reform plan saying "there is no crisis in health care"

*but considered a moderate: pleading for government help for the handicapped and disabled in 1969, and joined George McGovern in lowering eligibility for food stamps

*infamously said during the '76 VP debate "I figured it up the other day: If we added up the killed and wounded in Democrat wars in this century, it would be about 1.6 million Americans — enough to fill the city of Detroit" which backfired

*Dole was interviewed live in New Hampshire by Tom Brokaw during his unsuccessful bid in the 1988 primaries against George H.W. Bush, while Bush was right next to Brokaw in the studio in New York. Brokaw asked Bush if he had anything to say to Dole. Bush responded, "No, just wish him well and meet again in the south." Dole was asked the same question about the Vice President  and said "Yeah, stop lying about my record" about him not being anti-tax enough (ooh, the irony!). This prompted the media to perceive Dole as angry about the loss, contributing to his "hatchet man" image earned during his tenure as RNC chairman and the '76 campaign.

*Dole went on to lose the '88 primaries, despite a boost after Strom Thurmond crossed party lines to endorse him... Dole was seen as a micromanager who can't handle the campaign and being a sitting Senator at once

*In his 1996 acceptance speech, after a longer than expected primary season, Dole said "Let me be the bridge to an America that only the unknowing call myth. Let me be the bridge to a time of tranquillity, faith, and confidence in action." Bill Clinton responded, "We do not need to build a bridge to the past, we need to build a bridge to the future."

*Dole resigned his seat to focus on the campaign, saying he was either heading for "The White House or home".

*Dole promised a 15% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates and made former Congressman and supply side advocate Jack Kemp his running mate.

*Dole also found himself criticized from both the left and the right within the Republican Party over the convention platform, one of the major issues being the inclusion of the Human Life Amendment. Clinton framed the narrative against Dole early, painting him as a mere clone of unpopular then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich, warning America that Dole would work in concert with the Republican Congress to slash popular social programs, like Medicare and Social Security, dubbed by Clinton as "Dole-Gingrich". Dole's tax-cut plan found itself under attack from the White House, who said it would "blow a hole in the deficit".

*Dole is the only person in the history of the two major U.S. political parties to have been a party's nominee for both President and Vice President, but who was never elected to either office.

*The span of 20 years between his participation in the 1976 vice-presidential debate and the 1996 presidential debates is the longest for any candidate since televised debates in presidential election years were instituted in 1960.

*He became television commercial spokesman for Viagra, Visa, Dunkin' Donuts and Pepsi-Cola (with Britney Spears), and a frequent guest on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart

*The Robert J. Dole Institute of Politics was established to bring bipartisanship back to politics. It has featured such notable speakers as former President Bill Clinton and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

*Dole has written several books, including one on jokes told by the Presidents of the United States, in which he ranks the presidents according to their level of humor. On January 18, 1989, Dole was presented with the Presidential Citizens Medal by President Reagan. Then, on January 17, 1997, President Clinton awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his service in the military and his political career. Dole received the American Patriot Award in 2004 for his lifelong dedication to America and his service in World War II.

*Dole's legacy also includes a commitment to combating hunger both in the United States and around the globe. In addition to numerous domestic programs, and along with former Senator George McGovern, Dole created an international school lunch program. It would go on to provide more than 22 million meals to children in 41 countries in its first eight years, and has since led to greatly increased global interest in and support for school-feeding programs — which benefit girls and young women, in particular.

*On January 26, 2012, Dole issued a letter critical of Newt Gingrich, focusing on Dole and Gingrich's time working together on Capitol Hill. The letter was issued immediately before the Florida primary, which Gingrich lost despite his momentum from winning in South Carolina. Dole endorsed Mitt Romney for the Republican nomination

*On December 4, 2012, Dole made an appearance on the Senate floor to advocate ratification of the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. Democratic Senator John Kerry explained: "Bob Dole is here because he wants to know that other countries will come to treat the disabled as we do." The Senate rejected the treaty by a vote of 61-38, less than the 66 required for ratification.

*His second wife went on to become a U.S. Cabinet member and briefly a U.S. Senator

*Dole is a Freemason. In 1975, Dole was elevated to the 33rd˚of the Fraternal Order of Freemasonry.

*Dole often refers to himself in the third person in conversation.



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Blue3
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 04:06:04 AM »
« Edited: August 05, 2014, 04:39:18 AM by Starwatcher »

For me, writing about those two, and then trying to decide which one was better, really showed me more than anything else why both were never President.



I liked a lot of Dewey's accomplishments as Governor:
*prohibiting racial discrimination in employment
*creating state university
*creating state highway
*doubling education funding and increasing state employees' salaries, while greatly reducing state debt and consolidating agencies

But everything else about the man is either chilling (the electrocutions, the multiple reports on his personality), empty (like his '48 campaign... and I bet Dewey was the one FDR was joking about in his famous speech around 1940 about Republicans claiming to do it all better and at less cost), or bizarre (he helped LBJ pick Humphrey? he was dating a famous actress only a year after his wife died? he died while golfing with celebrities?).

Overall, he reminds me a bit too much of Mitt Romney, an even John Edwards.



Dole, on the other hand, while personably better... though quirky, and he did have quite a few major gaffes and angry moments... seems like he would have been an incompetent buffoon as President. I'm also against some of his more conservative policy positions too, naturally.



Dewey has some brain but no heart, Dole has some heart but no brain. It's choosing between the Tin-Man and the Scarecrow. I'll go with the Scarecrow. Though I do kind of wonder what the Tin-Man might have accomplished.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 04:33:19 AM »

Dole, by far.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 09:21:07 AM »

Dole
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 10:29:54 AM »

Dole, I guess.
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RR1997
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 11:48:37 AM »

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Blue3
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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 12:58:30 PM »

So why are people voting Dole or Dewey? They're almost tied right now.
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FEMA Camp Administrator
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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2014, 01:11:53 PM »

Dole due to being to Dewey's right, having a career I find more interesting, and for being an awesome dude.
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Grumpier Than Thou
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2014, 01:17:50 PM »


I don't understand. Neither of the two are exactly "ideal" in terms of a Republican candidate, but how is Dole less bad--dare I say 'better'--than Dewey from a left winger's standpoint?
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TDAS04
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2014, 01:33:51 PM »

Probably Dewey. 
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2014, 01:38:05 PM »

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muon2
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2014, 07:46:18 PM »

I prefer Dole. But really I preferred Libby Dole who I supported in the run up to 2000 before she dropped out.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2014, 09:21:08 PM »

Dole. Clearly past prime in 1996, essentially shut out by Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and the elder Bush. He might have been a better President than any of them. Of course,  I can think of some Republicans who would have been better than Dubya as President. Flawed? Sure. Aren't they all?

The characterizations of Dewey look so contrary in effectiveness and objectionability. There was a politician like that -- Richard Nixon.   
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Blue3
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« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2014, 09:33:18 PM »

Dewey reminds me of Romney too. Didn't think of Nixon, but that's another good comparison.

Dole is closer to Dubya or McCain, but probably not as quick to go to war as either of them, and of course he's similar to Ford too. If Dole was elected in 1996 and re-elected in 2000, I wonder how he would have responded to 9/11.
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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2014, 04:01:11 AM »

Dewey. A Republican who was sane. Those don't exist any more.
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I Will Not Be Wrong
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2014, 08:49:03 AM »

Bob Dole.
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Cory
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2014, 09:29:07 PM »

Dewey, easily.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2014, 10:55:38 PM »

Dewey. A Republican who was sane. Those don't exist any more.

They do exist today. We call them Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and their allies in the Tea Party.
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Cory
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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2014, 11:29:50 PM »

They do exist today. We call them Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and their allies in the Tea Party.

Get used to maps like this then:

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TNF
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« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2014, 11:35:49 PM »

The one that was (at one point) backed by the Communist Party.

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Sopranos Republican
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« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2014, 11:16:40 AM »

Dew-dawg, though, as Cathcon pointed out, Dole was an awesome dude.
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Blue3
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« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2014, 02:27:40 PM »

I'm going to declare the winner to be... Dewey.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2014, 08:46:57 PM »

They do exist today. We call them Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and their allies in the Tea Party.

Get used to maps like this then:



You underestimate the ability of the Tea Party to make wise running mate picks. If Reagan (the Tea Party candidate of his day) could do it then who's to say Mike Lee wouldn't.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2014, 10:41:27 AM »

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Badger
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« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2014, 11:49:30 AM »

They do exist today. We call them Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and their allies in the Tea Party.

Get used to maps like this then:



You underestimate the ability of the Tea Party to make wise running mate picks. If Reagan (the Tea Party candidate of his day) could do it then who's to say Mike Lee wouldn't.

And you vastly overestimate the ability of a running mate to do more than "not hurt" a ticket. To use your example, GHW Bush's selection as running mate had negligible effect on the final 1980 vote.

Oh, and Dewey defeats Dole.
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