Islamic State vs. The World (except Canada)
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Author Topic: Islamic State vs. The World (except Canada)  (Read 44466 times)
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2014, 08:47:36 PM »

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2014, 08:49:18 PM »

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.

So you'd want Islamists to continue their slaughter of Yezidis, Christians, and so forth just to spite the American foreign policy establishment?
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dead0man
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« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2014, 08:50:14 PM »

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.
You hope this backfires?  WTF is wrong with you?  That's just as bad has hoping the "other" side's President fails.  It's disgusting.  Good things happening (or bad things not happening) is always better than scoring political "points".
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Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2014, 08:51:07 PM »

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.

So...are you saying you want us to nail a hospital or a school and swell the ranks of ISIS to make a point?
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Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2014, 08:51:47 PM »
« Edited: August 07, 2014, 08:55:25 PM by ChairmanSanchez »

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.

So you'd want Islamists to continue their slaughter of Yezidis, Christians, and so forth just to spite the American foreign policy establishment?
The reason these people are being slaughtered in the first place is because we went into Iraq in the first place.

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarantee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.

So...are you saying you want us to nail a hospital or a school and swell the ranks of ISIS to make a point?
I don't hope we nail a hospital, but I guarantee you that it will happen because of general incompetence. We, like any nation, have made plenty of f[inks]ups during war. But that is not what I meant by hoping this mission backfires and I can see how you read it that way.

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarantee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.
You hope this backfires?  WTF is wrong with you?  That's just as bad has hoping the "other" side's President fails.  It's disgusting.  Good things happening (or bad things not happening) is always better than scoring political "points".
When I was little, I always tried to touch the iron while my mom was doing laundry. It looked cool and I wanted to do it. So one day, she let me touch it. And I never again tried to touch the ironing board.
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2014, 08:53:37 PM »

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.

So you'd want Islamists to continue their slaughter of Yezidis, Christians, and so forth just to spite the American foreign policy establishment?
The reason these people are being slaughtered in the first place is because we went into Iraq in the first place.


I don't disagree with that-the question now is how do we deal with the chaos we've caused? It is apparent that a large portion of the Iraqi population, if not a majority, has been hoping for American airstrikes of this kind.
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Blue3
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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2014, 08:54:56 PM »
« Edited: August 07, 2014, 09:00:03 PM by Starwatcher »

This is a good map for reference, you can see where the small Yazidi and Christian communities are:
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dead0man
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« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2014, 09:01:03 PM »

The reason these people are being slaughtered in the first place is because we went into Iraq in the first place.
People were being slaughtered in Iraq BEFORE we went in there.  You don't really think everybody got along just fine before Saddam invaded Kuwait do you?  You don't think really think that they got along between the Gulf Wars do you?  Saddam was murdering hundreds of thousands in Iraq.  I don't know why this was forgotten.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2014, 09:03:04 PM »

The reason these people are being slaughtered in the first place is because we went into Iraq in the first place.
People were being slaughtered in Iraq BEFORE we went in there.  You don't really think everybody got along just fine before Saddam invaded Kuwait do you?  You don't think really think that they got along between the Gulf Wars do you?  Saddam was murdering hundreds of thousands in Iraq.  I don't know why this was forgotten.
I know all about the crimes of the Hussein regime. That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't our problem.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2014, 09:04:25 PM »

I was going to say "let the panty-wasting" commence... buuuut I see it already has.

Sadly, Sanchez's understanding of this is very very thin and is a pretty typical knee-jerk Libertarian reaction.

"Not our problem" ... it's remarkable how simplistic the Paulite (etc) philosophy is.
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dead0man
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« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2014, 09:04:55 PM »

The reason these people are being slaughtered in the first place is because we went into Iraq in the first place.
People were being slaughtered in Iraq BEFORE we went in there.  You don't really think everybody got along just fine before Saddam invaded Kuwait do you?  You don't think really think that they got along between the Gulf Wars do you?  Saddam was murdering hundreds of thousands in Iraq.  I don't know why this was forgotten.
I know all about the crimes of the Hussein regime. That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't our problem.
That's an acceptable position to take, but HOPING an attack fails and civilians are killed just to teach your own country a "lesson" is a HORRIBLE thing to think.  I just want you to realize that.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2014, 09:05:33 PM »
« Edited: August 07, 2014, 10:26:10 PM by Simfan34 »

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.

What is wrong with you? You need help.

I mean it's clear that ChairmanSanchez lacks any sort of conscience or sense of moral awareness so I doubt pointing out Saddam's brutality would make any kind of effect.
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BaconBacon96
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« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2014, 09:09:09 PM »

Good. If this helps stop the genocide of the Yazidi people, than it needs to be done.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2014, 09:11:24 PM »

The reason these people are being slaughtered in the first place is because we went into Iraq in the first place.
People were being slaughtered in Iraq BEFORE we went in there.  You don't really think everybody got along just fine before Saddam invaded Kuwait do you?  You don't think really think that they got along between the Gulf Wars do you?  Saddam was murdering hundreds of thousands in Iraq.  I don't know why this was forgotten.
I know all about the crimes of the Hussein regime. That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't our problem.
That's an acceptable position to take, but HOPING an attack fails and civilians are killed just to teach your own country a "lesson" is a HORRIBLE thing to think.  I just want you to realize that.
I don't hope civilians are killed. I already know it is a foregone conclusion, which is part of the reason I am so vocally against this.

I mean it's clear that ChairmanSanchez lacks any sort of conscience or sense of moral awareness so I doubt pointing out Saddam's brutality would make any kind of effect.
What about the fighters in ISIS? What about their moral conscience? I mean, if we can just declare ourselves the good guys, can't they? I don't know where Snowstalker is in this thread, but I imagine when he starts to post he will, for once, be completely right. We can’t arbitrarily decide who is and who isn’t right in a situation that doesn’t affect American interests.

Are you going to sign up and fight if we go beyond air strikes and put troops on the ground? I know dead0man, who has served our country and is a person I greatly admire would, and that is why I respect his opinion on this matter even though I disagree. So far, all I am reading from everyone aside from dead0man is chickenhawking and arm-chair quarterbacking.

I was going to say "let the panty-wasting" commence... buuuut I see it already has.

Sadly, Sanchez's understanding of this is very very thin and is a pretty typical knee-jerk Libertarian reaction.

"Not our problem" ... it's remarkable how simplistic the Paulite (etc) philosophy is.
It’s very, very simple. That is the beauty of it. Internationalism has worked out soooo well for the world so far, hasn’t it?

Good. If this helps stop the genocide of the Yazidi people, than it needs to be done.
I certainly feel that the air drops are important and should be continued.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2014, 09:13:50 PM »

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.

I am a very partisan Democrat. Carping at the President ends at America's shores, and such trumps partisanship.

I wanted President George W.  Bush's war against Saddam Hussein to succeed even if its justification was shaky. We are Americans and we owe some loyalty to those soldiers who enforce the foreign policy of our nation.  We are at risk of war -- but our President did not create that risk. ISIS did with its genocide and other war crimes.

We are going to see the difference between this President and his awful predecessor. Dubya contradicted the intelligence of the CIA. President Obama gets his facts straight before he acts on any issue of foreign policy.

Long live the Yezidis! Long live Iraqi Christians! Long live Shi'ite Muslims in northern Iraq! Long live the Kurds! If that means the demise of ISIS -- then ISIS may have created its own demise.  
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cinyc
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« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2014, 09:15:08 PM »

What about the fighters in ISIS? What about their moral conscience? I mean, if we can just declare ourselves the good guys, can't they?

That's moral relativistic nonsense.  ISIS can declare themselves the Queen of England, but it doesn't make them so.  Nobody who engages in mass genocide and forces conversions to their particular religion by the sword can claim the moral high ground in the 21st century.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2014, 09:16:22 PM »

Brushing that under the carpet under the banner of "it didn't work, therefore we should let these people be hunted down and massacred" is the height of moral cowardice.

But I get the attraction of "not my problem"... it's simple, clean it just happens to be completely morally bankrupt. But of course in that Universe, "I've got mine (healthcare, education, security)... f*** them" is the all-encompassing credo.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2014, 09:17:47 PM »

What about the fighters in ISIS? What about their moral conscience? I mean, if we can just declare ourselves the good guys, can't they?

That's moral relativistic nonsense.  ISIS can declare themselves the Queen of England, but it doesn't make them so.  Nobody who engages in mass genocide and forces conversions to their particular religion by the sword can claim the moral high ground in the 21st century.
Can we really claim moral high ground?

Brushing that under the carpet under the banner of "it didn't work, therefore we should let these people be hunted down and massacred" is the height of moral cowardice.

But I get the attraction of "not my problem"... it's simple, clean it just happens to be completely morally bankrupt. But of course in that Universe, "I've got mine (healthcare, education, security)... f*** them" is the all-encompassing credo.
We are not letting them get hunted down and slaughtered. If we can drop food and water, we can surely drop in equipment for them to defend themselves much like we did in Syria.

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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
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« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2014, 09:18:52 PM »

What about the fighters in ISIS? What about their moral conscience? I mean, if we can just declare ourselves the good guys, can't they?

That's moral relativistic nonsense.  ISIS can declare themselves the Queen of England, but it doesn't make them so.  Nobody who engages in mass genocide and forces conversions to their particular religion by the sword can claim the moral high ground in the 21st century.
Can we really claim moral high ground?

Brushing that under the carpet under the banner of "it didn't work, therefore we should let these people be hunted down and massacred" is the height of moral cowardice.

But I get the attraction of "not my problem"... it's simple, clean it just happens to be completely morally bankrupt. But of course in that Universe, "I've got mine (healthcare, education, security)... f*** them" is the all-encompassing credo.
We are not letting them get hunted down and slaughtered. If we can drop food and water, we can surely drop in equipment for them to defend themselves much like we did in Syria.



Most of these people would not know what to do with the equipment necessary.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
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« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2014, 09:20:46 PM »

What about the fighters in ISIS? What about their moral conscience? I mean, if we can just declare ourselves the good guys, can't they?

That's moral relativistic nonsense.  ISIS can declare themselves the Queen of England, but it doesn't make them so.  Nobody who engages in mass genocide and forces conversions to their particular religion by the sword can claim the moral high ground in the 21st century.
Can we really claim moral high ground?

In this case? Yes.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2014, 09:21:58 PM »

What about the fighters in ISIS? What about their moral conscience? I mean, if we can just declare ourselves the good guys, can't they?

That's moral relativistic nonsense.  ISIS can declare themselves the Queen of England, but it doesn't make them so.  Nobody who engages in mass genocide and forces conversions to their particular religion by the sword can claim the moral high ground in the 21st century.
Can we really claim moral high ground?

Certainly higher than ISIS.
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2014, 09:25:10 PM »

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.

Ok Snowstalker.
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patrick1
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« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2014, 09:25:17 PM »

Sanchez, you really think that we can't claim moral high ground from ISIS? This is a group too extreme even for Al Qaeda- a group that cuts heads off for fun...
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2014, 09:26:16 PM »

I mean it's clear that ChairmanSanchez lacks any sort of conscience or sense of moral awareness so I doubt pointing out Saddam's brutality would make any kind of effect.

Yep, sort of conscience, moral awareness, reasonable intelligence, etc...
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Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2014, 09:27:48 PM »

Sanchez, you really think that we can't claim moral high ground from ISIS? This is a group too extreme even for Al Qaeda- a group that cuts heads off for fun...
Do I personally feel that? No. But from a policy stand point, who is the arbitrator of who is and who isn't right and wrong these days? Radical Islam are more complex than “they kill those who disagree” and “they hate freedom.” We are never going to stomp out radical Islam, and we might just fan it’s flames like we did when we first invaded in ’03.

I hope this backfires. I really do. We need to learn a lesson. I guarentee that when the bombs begin to fall we are going to nail a hospital or a school, and ISIS's ranks will only continue to swell.

Ok Snowstalker.
The great irony is that he is likely the one person who is going to be making sense in this thread.
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