Discussions about the VP role
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  Discussions about the VP role
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windjammer
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« on: August 08, 2014, 08:58:09 AM »

First of all, I would like to apologize for having overreacted. Even if I completely disagree with his proposal, I finally realize that there wasn't any attack behind that, he genuinely thinks the VP should have no power, and I of course completely disagree with that, but there was no attack behind.

I thank him for having proposed to reform the senate rules though, they need to be simplified a lot, indeed.

However, I don't support the fact that Averroës wants to strip all of my duties, because I believe he overestimates the importance of the VP for some reasons:
-even if I'm presiding the senate, I have no real power, except the tie breaking vote. The tie breaking, I have used it only once since my election, for a minor amendment on the TNF Ukraine bill.
-I'm forced to completely follow the senate rules. The senators directly control me by the senate rules. Everything I do: opening a vote for instance, I cannot open a vote if no senator mentions for that. The current introduction of the bills in the slots: I'm forced to respect an order in the introduction of the bills. For instance, the 6 first slots, this is for "general" bills. And I have to respect the order of the introduction of the bills for these slots. There is as well the clogging rule limit, meaning a senator cannot have 3 of his bills debated at the same time.  The slots "Emergency", and 'VP slots" are however exempted of this rule.

That's why I believe many of you wrongfully believe there is a problem with the executive power (overreach or something like that). Because basically EVERYTHING I do is controlled by the current senators.

Furthermore, I don't think we can really consider the VP is clearly a representative of the executive power. Indeed, he replaces the President if the office is vacant. But I believe that, even with the current reforms made by Averroes, his duty will still be more "President of the Senate". If I have read clearly what he has done, my only power would be to do the PPT election. Even if I would have just to do that, that would still be more often than replacing a president.

That's why I believe there isn't any problem with the separation of the power. I would like to point out that the current US constitution is really similar, the Vice President shall preside the senate. This is what he did during the 19th century (and the beginning of the 20th). In many states, this is as well the duty of the lieutenant governor to preside the state senate. I think for instance in North Carolina or in Arkansas.

And, even if I don't think he believes that I'm poorly managing the senate, why this sudden change? Have I done something wrong when I was presiding one of the slots? I don't think. I know this isn't his intent to undermine me, but, stripping all of my duties, I go completely mad with the idea of being inactive.

And an another thing, I don't think he wants to abolish my office, but, when you have to almost nothing, just making the election of the PPT, some people after will contest simply the existence of the VP, given he would basically be useless.


I know this is irritating a lot of persons (considering someone asked to make this pesty poll against my job), but I have never wanted to have bad intentions when I was elected VP. I genuinely believe the VP should administer slots, because he would be useless otherwise. I truly want to do my job, I have no secret intention behind.

The VP is useful because he's responsible, I believe, of the relations between the president and the senators. I inform DemPGH about the bills that have been introduced. I inform the senators there is a vote that I have been opened. What it is interesting is that the VP has relations with both: the senators and the President. And I believe this is positive.

Furthermore, as you can see, DemPGH and Duke were both VP before being president, the fact that the VP is often considered as a future presidential candidate is useful, because when you're president, even if you're not a legislatore, you still have to understand approximately the current rules, for instance the redraft,etc. And considering he has had relations with the senators, this is good for the relations between the executive power and the legislative power if he's elected Prez after.
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windjammer
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 10:17:38 AM »

Well,
I found something else interesting.
Article II Section 1:
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An another proof the VP isn't considered as a member of the executive.

I would have agreed that there would be a problem in the case where I would be "acting president", while still being the President of the Senate, but the constitution clearly forbides that.

Indeed:
Section 3 Clause 1:
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And no one can be both president and vice president.

If DemPGH has to resign, I wouldn't be able to administer the senate anymore, because I wouldn't be president of the senate.
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windjammer
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« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 01:09:00 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/27/opinion/27reynolds.html

I have to say I quite agree with the NYT, and Sarah Palin Tongue.
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sentinel
sirnick
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 04:05:45 PM »


That's not the NY Times speaking (its not an editorial). That is by  Glenn Reynolds, a professor at University of Tennessee.
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windjammer
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 04:06:40 PM »


That's not the NY Times speaking (its not an editorial). That is by  Glenn Reynolds, a professor at University of Tennessee.
Oh thank you for the correction Sirnick,
So I basically agree with Glenn Reynolds Tongue.
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