Is George W. Bush to blame for ISIS?

[Simfan34]

Indeed. Now I see. I personally blame Abdol-Madjid Madjidi and his subordinates for lacking spine.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

If the democratic forces in Syria had triumphed and Assad been overthrown, there would never be the vacuum of power in western Syria that allowed such a radical group to thrive.

I think you mean eastern Syria.

And anyways, as crappy as Assad is, helping him would be been the most effective way to destroy ISIS.

[The Mikado]

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is to blame for ISIS.

[Lief 🗽]

Well if Bush hadn't convinced a generation of liberal/progressive/left-wing Americans that the answer to every foreign policy crisis is isolationism, maybe we would have intervened in Syria and stopped ISIS before they became a thing.

[Beet]

If the democratic forces in Syria had triumphed and Assad been overthrown, there would never be the vacuum of power in western Syria that allowed such a radical group to thrive.

I think you mean eastern Syria.

And anyways, as crappy as Assad is, helping him would be been the most effective way to destroy ISIS.

Assad and ISIS until very, very recently have had a symbiotic relationship; similar to Likud and Hamas. They are both extremists and rely on polarizing the situation to win. Irregardless, we never supported Assad either. We never had a dog in this fight, because we chose not to have one. We gambled that not having a dog in the fight was going to work out in the end, but in as far as ISIS is a concern of the U.S., that hasn't happened.

Morden- yes, eastern Syria.

[Blue3]

I blame Bush for a lot of things, but I don't blame him for this. Yes, his actions helped contribute to causing this situation, but a lot of other and bigger factors contributed to it.

[OAM]

Eisenhower's fault for the 1953 Iranian coup, which eventually led to the Iranian Revolution, Iran-Iraq War, Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, Gulf War, Gulf War II, and the rise of al Qaeda in Iraq.

The fact that ISIS probably wouldn't exist without Eisenhower's Iranian intervention is quite valid especially as everyone in the past couple of decades has come to agreement it was a major blunder and f**k up and the consequences are being reaped today. Another dark mark on Ike's legacy.

Not this again...

Gavrilo Princip's fault for assassinating Archduke Franz Ferdinand.  Without that assassination, no World War I, dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, or the eventual establishment of Iraq as an independent state.  And thus, no ISIS.

The fact that ISIS probably wouldn't exist without the assassination of the archduke is quite valid especially as everyone in the past century has come to agreement it was a major blunder and f**k up and the consequences are being reaped today. Another dark mark on Princip's legacy.

Thank you for these.  I wanted to do something similar earlier today, but couldn't manage with my current migraine.

[Silent Hunter]

Human beings have free will, therefore ISIS is to blame for their own actions.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

No.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cheney-obama-absolute-gutting-of-the-us-military-2014-8

[MATTROSE94]

I blame Bush for a lot of things, but I don't blame him for this. Yes, his actions helped contribute to causing this situation, but a lot of other and bigger factors contributed to it.

[Simfan34]

Seriously though, Bremer's dissolution of the Iraqi Army was a major mistake, and it remains a major mistake. It was an essentially unilateral decision taken without consulting neither State nor Defense nor the White House nor even the commanders on the ground.

It is why there were so many angry Sunnis with guns running around Iraq in the following years and good part of why why these particular angry Sunnis are running around now. If there was a single decision that could be pointed to as the largest factor in the present situation in Iraq, this would be it.

[dead0man]

Seriously though, Bremer's dissolution of the Iraqi Army was a major mistake, and it remains a major mistake. It was an essentially unilateral decision taken without consulting neither State nor Defense nor the White House nor even the commanders on the ground.

Probably the biggest mistake in the whole damn mess.

[politicus]

Seriously though, Bremer's dissolution of the Iraqi Army was a major mistake, and it remains a major mistake. It was an essentially unilateral decision taken without consulting neither State nor Defense nor the White House nor even the commanders on the ground.

Probably the biggest mistake in the whole damn mess.

I don't think "probably" is needed in this context.

[Simfan34]

Of course, that went hand-in-hand with the excesses of de-Baathification; purging every single member of the party, irrespective of rank, from the civil service, which ended up amounting to up to 100,000 people. Besides the serious diminution of state capacity this effected, it alienated, and deprived of their livelihoods, much of what was the Iraqi middle class. I mean, the state collapse in Iraq can rather plainly be traced to the gutting of the state by the provisional authority. This is particularly bizarre, as we had learnt the perils of such an approach in Germany and didn't even try it in Japan. 

The failure of the US to achieve its goals in Iraq had less to do with the goals themselves as opposed to the people who were entrusted to carry them out. The Bush administration gave the provisional authority an alarming degree of latitude in hastily determining policy, who in turn gave much credence to people like al-Jafari or Chalabi (who arguably got us into this whole mess). It goes back to the disinterest that administration officials had in planning for the post-war reconstruction process. Which, I suppose, stemmed in turn from the naive neo-conservative belief that the Iraqi people would embrace "democracy" eagerly and quickly resolve their problems on their own.

[patrick1]

Of course, that went hand-in-hand with the excesses of de-Baathification; purging every single member of the party, irrespective of rank, from the civil service, which ended up amounting to up to 100,000 people. Besides the serious diminution of state capacity this effected, it alienated, and deprived of their livelihoods, much of what was the Iraqi middle class. I mean, the state collapse in Iraq can rather plainly be traced to the gutting of the state by the provisional authority. This is particularly bizarre, as we had learnt the perils of such an approach in Germany and didn't even try it in Japan. 

The failure of the US to achieve its goals in Iraq had less to do with the goals themselves as opposed to the people who were entrusted to carry them out. The Bush administration gave the provisional authority an alarming degree of latitude in hastily determining policy, who in turn gave much credence to people like al-Jafari or Chalabi (who arguably got us into this whole mess). It goes back to the disinterest that administration officials had in planning for the post-war reconstruction process. Which, I suppose, stemmed in turn from the naive neo-conservative belief that the Iraqi people would embrace "democracy" eagerly and quickly resolve their problems on their own.

Agreed that Bremer made serious errors with the Iraqi Army and the de-Baathification.  However, juxtaposing ISIS and the Sunnis like this conflates the two.  Like Al Qaeda in Iraq and al Zarqawi before it, your standard Sunni/ex Baath and are using ISIS to achieve their means. You could easily see more awakening councils once the dust settles. yet, they would be well advised to choose their allies wisely because ISIS cannot be tamed easily. They are wide eyed fanatics who will not listen to reason and do not want a peace, with justice or otherwise.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Responsibility is split roughly equally between Bush, Al Maliki and Assad.

[jaichind]

Yes he is.

Saddam Hussein would have ruthlessly suppressed them.

I wonder if he feels any guilt about how his actions lead to what is happening in Iraq now or if he's too busy finger-painting like a 5 year old, since he's a "great" painter these days.

This.

[Silent Hunter]

Saddam Hussein would have ruthlessly suppressed them.

Saddam would possibly be dead by now of natural causes... and ISIS' support comes from the Sunni community, who did very well under him.

[swl]

At most a tiny fraction of the blame....like less than 1%.  Anybody that thinks that the majority of blame goes to Bush the Lesser has some serious issues and shouldn't be taken seriously on the important topics of the day.

Agreed.

Anyway George Bush is nothing now so any discussion about his responsibility is quite pointless.

Also like others said, many factors contributed to the rise of ISIS, but they are the ones doing horrible things, so the emergency is to get rid of them before trying to put the blame on anyone else.