What should we do with ISIS?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 03:23:47 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  What should we do with ISIS?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: What should happen in the Middle East?
#1
Nothing.
 
#2
We shouldn't just do nothing, but we are doing too much.
 
#3
This is what we should be doing.
 
#4
We shouldn't start another war, but we should be doing more in Iraq and Syria. Air strikes in Syria? Something else?
 
#5
We should re-start the war.
 
#6
We should restart a larger war.
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 59

Author Topic: What should we do with ISIS?  (Read 4367 times)
Person Man
Angry_Weasel
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,681
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: August 11, 2014, 11:59:18 AM »

Let it begin.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,963
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2014, 12:42:39 PM »

Option 4
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 01:16:20 PM »

Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,096
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 03:29:02 PM »

Option 2 and 3. I was happy to see we helped in evacuations today, but we really need to be weary about the propaganda value of the bombing.
Logged
ingemann
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,226


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 03:42:21 PM »

Honestly I don't have an easy answer, I personal don't think we can do much. Through if I should suggest something, it would be that the west reached some kind of permanent agreement with Iran, which allowed us to cooperate with them. Iran are unable because of religious reasons to dominate the region, so they would be a relative stable partner, and the whole Shia Cresent wouldn't be a big problem for us.
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 03:46:43 PM »

Indeed, Iran should be on our side.  Really wish they were.  They need to lose the religious oligarchy at the top.
Logged
ingemann
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,226


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2014, 03:49:31 PM »

Indeed, Iran should be on our side.  Really wish they were.  They need to lose the religious oligarchy at the top.

If USA are able to cooperate with Saudi Arabia, they are also able to cooperate with an Iranian theocracy.
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2014, 03:54:29 PM »

Agreed.  Probably even easier really.  Both support baddies outside of their respective countries that do us and our allies harm, but it seems, to me at least, that we historically have had more in common with Persians than we have had with people on the Arabian peninsula.
Logged
Cory
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,709


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2014, 08:43:39 PM »

I assume by "airstrikes in Syria" you mean against Islamic State targets, not Assad Loyalists? Attacking Assad would be rather counterproductive to defeating The Islamic State at this point.
Logged
patrick1
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,865


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2014, 10:10:07 PM »

We should wholly destroy them and their network. Call in more carriers, more drones, more  bombers if need be. Seal up their routes to escape and take advantage of them congregating to dismantle them.  US boots on the ground don't work, but we must give the fighting advantage to their enemies and our putative allies. (<this does not include the vast majority of the Syrian groups we've been helping)
Logged
Frodo
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 24,509
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2014, 10:14:05 PM »

We should wholly destroy them and their network. Call in more carriers, more drones, more  bombers if need be. Seal up their routes to escape and take advantage of them congregating to dismantle them.  US boots on the ground don't work, but we must give the fighting advantage to their enemies and our putative allies. (<this does not include the vast majority of the Syrian groups we've been helping)

Not even Special Forces? 
Logged
patrick1
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,865


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2014, 10:27:25 PM »

We should wholly destroy them and their network. Call in more carriers, more drones, more  bombers if need be. Seal up their routes to escape and take advantage of them congregating to dismantle them.  US boots on the ground don't work, but we must give the fighting advantage to their enemies and our putative allies. (<this does not include the vast majority of the Syrian groups we've been helping)

Not even Special Forces? 

Eh, very small numbers that you wouldnt know about, if need be.  Those to guide the airstrikes and prevent blue on blue incidents.  You need a whole bunch of support personnel anytime you field people in significant numbers. So Special Activities Division, maybe Delta- low profile, small footprint.
Logged
Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,306
United Kingdom


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2014, 11:08:13 AM »

Indeed, Iran should be on our side.  Really wish they were.  They need to lose the religious oligarchy at the top.

They're on Iraq's side; they've given them Su-25s.
Logged
Person Man
Angry_Weasel
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,681
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2014, 12:41:29 PM »

I assume by "airstrikes in Syria" you mean against Islamic State targets, not Assad Loyalists? Attacking Assad would be rather counterproductive to defeating The Islamic State at this point.

Pick yer poison. But seriously, we could have ISIS on the ropes in Iraq, make em go into Syria and save Assad's ass once he weakened.
Logged
Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,846
Ireland, Republic of


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2014, 01:05:48 PM »

At this point I wonder if 'permanently occupy the region' is the only 'solution' here.
Logged
Vosem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,624
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2014, 01:32:15 PM »

The correct answer is 'we shouldn't've pulled out back in 2010', but of course the past can't be undone and in the present situation we're basically doing the right thing.

Indeed, Iran should be on our side.  Really wish they were.  They need to lose the religious oligarchy at the top.

If USA are able to cooperate with Saudi Arabia, they are also able to cooperate with an Iranian theocracy.

The problem is that discord with the US is an integral part of the Iranian regime's ideology, which isn't the case in Saudi Arabia (even though, as dead0man said, Saudi Arabia is certainly the more conservative and repressive of the two). Iran nearly went to war with the Taliban in 1998, and has long been an opponent of extremist Sunnis/the Taliban/Saddam Hussein; we could've been allies for the past decade and a half, but it didn't turn out that way. It may yet, depending on who replaces Khamenei.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2014, 01:37:20 PM »
« Edited: August 12, 2014, 01:40:17 PM by Simfan34 »

Indeed, Iran should be on our side.  Really wish they were.  They need to lose the religious oligarchy at the top.

We could've been allies for the past decade and a half, but it didn't turn out that way.

Logged
Hamster
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 260
WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2014, 12:37:13 AM »

At this point I wonder if 'permanently occupy the region' is the only 'solution' here.

It is difficult to see a real solution. But I think we have an obligation to do everything within our power to stop genocide, which is the clear aim of the Islamic State. At this point that means sustained airstrikes over Iraq and Syria, western military advisers who actually advise, and heavy support for the friendly forces (Iraqi Security Forces, Peshmerga, Syrian Kurds, and the non-IS rebels who still are a force in certain areas of Syria, contrary to the dominant narratives). If the IS manages to punch through the Peshmerga, that may mean cajoling Turkey into moving troops into Iraq.

The tricky thing is the IS is not the only potential agent of genocide. The Shia militias mobilized recently by the clerics have a history of ethnic cleansing. If the IS succeeds in destroying Shia holy sites as they have stated is their aim, Baghdad and the surrounding areas will turn into a killing field. That is exactly what the IS wants. Their strategy is plunge the entire region into a religious war of an even greater scale than the crusades. And they are very close to success. I don't think I am being hyperbolic to say that the real war has not yet begun. Maybe there is still time for a NATO led occupation of Iraq and Syria to squash the Islamic State, but I don't believe that would neutralize the threat. The ideology the IS promotes is stronger now then ever. Smash it in here and it will pop up somewhere else.
Logged
Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,010
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2014, 01:07:10 AM »

In the face of the emergence of ISIS, we should probably do another push for a peach deal between Assad and the non-ISIS rebels.
Logged
ingemann
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,226


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2014, 06:30:41 AM »



It is difficult to see a real solution. But I think we have an obligation to do everything within our power to stop genocide, which is the clear aim of the Islamic State. At this point that means sustained airstrikes over Iraq and Syria, western military advisers who actually advise, and heavy support for the friendly forces (Iraqi Security Forces, Peshmerga, Syrian Kurds, and the non-IS rebels who still are a force in certain areas of Syria, contrary to the dominant narratives). If the IS manages to punch through the Peshmerga, that may mean cajoling Turkey into moving troops into Iraq.

The tricky thing is the IS is not the only potential agent of genocide. The Shia militias mobilized recently by the clerics have a history of ethnic cleansing. If the IS succeeds in destroying Shia holy sites as they have stated is their aim, Baghdad and the surrounding areas will turn into a killing field. That is exactly what the IS wants. Their strategy is plunge the entire region into a religious war of an even greater scale than the crusades. And they are very close to success. I don't think I am being hyperbolic to say that the real war has not yet begun. Maybe there is still time for a NATO led occupation of Iraq and Syria to squash the Islamic State, but I don't believe that would neutralize the threat. The ideology the IS promotes is stronger now then ever. Smash it in here and it will pop up somewhere else.

Yes and we can expect them to at very least ethnic cleanse rather large areas in the southern Sunni area (as around Baghdad not near the Saudi border, as those Sunnis have stayed anti-ISIS). In fact I also think Mosul are going to end up a Kurdish city when this war is over, and I think millions of Sunnis will end up fleeing to the neighbouring countries. Of course even with that, it's still preferable to genocidal practices of ISIS, and I'm not willing to send western troops to die to protect the people, who did nothing to stop ISIS from killing their neighbours (and yes they could have stopped them).

As for this whole thing spreading, I doubt it, we may see something in Jordan in a few years, of course luckily Jordan are a country where USA can intervene without the local government sabotage them, plus the Jordanian army are somewhat competent.
Logged
ingemann
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,226


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2014, 06:42:19 AM »

In the face of the emergence of ISIS, we should probably do another push for a peach deal between Assad and the non-ISIS rebels.

Not going to happen, and it really doesn't matter either, the non-ISIS rebels (except for the Kurds) are either irrelevant or as bad as ISIS and all of them (except the Kurds) are in a state of collapse. Yes the West could try to make a deal between Assad and the Kurds, where they later got autonomy against cooperating with Assad, while the West recognised the regime as legitimate, ended the boycot and gave them access to their money abroard. The problem with that would be that it would be a major loss of face for the West, especially USA, France and UK.
Logged
swl
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 581
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2014, 11:27:35 AM »
« Edited: August 13, 2014, 12:53:25 PM by swl »

Get rid of them. There are a lot of bad people in the area but the Islamic State are the worst of the worst.

Everyone should ally against them. That does not mean that everyone is suddenly going to become best friends, but we need a temporary alliance.

Fully support the Kurds, they are the best guys there. They will probably use everything we give them to create their own State later but whatever, they deserve it.
Get rid of Maliki (done), because he is just terrible and is partly responsible for the sectarian tensions, and fully support the new Iraqi government.
Temporarily shut up about Assad, and hope he will later end up assassinated by a bodyguard or something like that. Let Iran intervene if they wish to.
Do whatever is possible to prepare peace for the after-ISIS, because it is likely that many will try to have their revenge against the Sunnis who accepted the Islamic State.
Logged
ingemann
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,226


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2014, 03:18:24 PM »

Do whatever is possible to prepare peace for the after-ISIS, because it is likely that many will try to have their revenge against the Sunnis who accepted the Islamic State.

I doubt we will be able to do much there, unless you want the West to reoccupy Iraq. The Sunnis of Iraq can look forward to a sh**tty future, but I doubt it will be a genocidal future.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.056 seconds with 13 queries.