Interesting poll

[agcatter]

out of Montana taken the byMason-Dixon during the latter part of last week.  Bush way ahead of all potential Democratic nominees.  That's not the interesting part.  Bush being way ahead in a mountain state means no more than a Dem running way ahead in Massachusetts.  Big deal.  What was intersting to me was that Dean ran better against Bush than any of the other Dem candidates.

Bush by 26 over Clark, 28 over Liberman, 32 over Kerry, and 30 over Gephardt.  Dean was down 22.

Kind of surprised me.  I figured Dean would not be running the best especially in a pretty conservative western state.

[M]

Well, y'know what they say-- there's lies, damn lies, and then there's poll results!

Very humorous. At this stage, this indicates mainly name recognition. As in, "Oh, yeah, Dean, isn't that... oh, no, that's Brittney Spears... oh, wait, yeah Dean, he's running for president, right? Oh yeah, ok, yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, ok, put me down for supporting Howard Dean".

Few people beyond politicians, analysts, enthusiasts, journalists, and people with too much free time know much about the dem primary. Yet. That's why Bush is saving choiuce clips to be replayed later.

[Inmate Trump]

out of Montana taken the byMason-Dixon during the latter part of last week.  Bush way ahead of all potential Democratic nominees.  That's not the interesting part.  Bush being way ahead in a mountain state means no more than a Dem running way ahead in Massachusetts.  Big deal.  What was intersting to me was that Dean ran better against Bush than any of the other Dem candidates.

Bush by 26 over Clark, 28 over Liberman, 32 over Kerry, and 30 over Gephardt.  Dean was down 22.

Kind of surprised me.  I figured Dean would not be running the best especially in a pretty conservative western state.

I think what this proves is that liberals in Montana are the same as liberals in Vermont.  The far left wing has literally taken over the Democratic Party (that's why I left it) in every state.  That isn't an exaggeration.

The reason Dean is performing so much better than his rivals (and even in a state like Montana) is b/c each of his rivals are perceived as too conservative for the party--a conservative Democrat (Lieberman, in some ways Gephardt, Clark, Kerry and Edwards) will never win a Democratic primary for president b/c the liberals who control the party would never vote for them.

[M]

Note that this trend you identify is a departure from the '90s. This indicates the fall of the Clinton Centrist Coalition. I've said it before, and I will say it again- if the dems can not recover from the current trend by the end of the decade, the US may have a complete reordring of politics in the nation, possibly including the utter collapse and replacement of the democratic party.

[agcatter]

It's not that Zell didn't try to warn them.

[Cairo_East]

Dean has actually spent quite a bit of time campaigning in Idaho.  The reason: the Idaho primary is one week before the March Super Tuesday primaries.  If he wins Idaho it'll be in the papers for a full week leading up to Super Tuesday - which could be enough of a media push to win Super Tuesday and, for all intents, get the nomination.

[agcatter]

Not a bad strategy.  i'll say this for Dean.  He's run a very savy campaign thus far and it's the little things like this which have given him the edge so far.

[Beet]

Actually what gave him the edge is that he is the only one to seriously criticize Bush is a consistent manner. Regardless of how one feels about the war, the manner in which it was presented to both the American public and the rest of the civilized world is indefensible.

[Cairo_East]

Bit of a threadjack, Beet.

I think another reason Dean is doing well is because of he is quite conservative on several issues, especially gun control.  Why he's allowing himself to be painted as an extreme liberal is condusing to me.  I don't hink he'll win the election, but it'd be quite a bit closer if he was a passionate moderate rather than an angry liberal.

[Beet]

Sorry, being called a Middle Eastern dictator and hearing Carter being compared to Hitler threw me off temporarily. Unless I misconstrued the post...

The point is that Dean distinguished himself as the antiwar candidate, thats why he's not in Kerry's position now. Certainly the technology-savvy helped, but he's going to allow himself to be painted as a strong liberal until he's confident in winning the primaries, because for now that's still his base. Certainly for those of us looking at the general election, things are very different.

[© tweed]

Couldn't help but see your signature, CairoEast.  LOL!  The EECS-Electoral College Championship Series!

Great signature.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Dean is opposed to gun control.
In Montana that matters a lot.

[jravnsbo]

One issue, guns doesn't make you a conservative.  And Balancing the budget the size of half of Miami hardly makes hima  fiscal conservative.

[DarthKosh]

Bit of a threadjack, Beet.

I think another reason Dean is doing well is because of he is quite conservative on several issues, especially gun control.  Why he's allowing himself to be painted as an extreme liberal is condusing to me.  I don't hink he'll win the election, but it'd be quite a bit closer if he was a passionate moderate rather than an angry liberal.

If he is a passionate moderate as you say he would not have the isane left on his side.

[DarthKosh]

Sorry, being called a Middle Eastern dictator and hearing Carter being compared to Hitler threw me off temporarily. Unless I misconstrued the post...

The point is that Dean distinguished himself as the antiwar candidate, thats why he's not in Kerry's position now. Certainly the technology-savvy helped, but he's going to allow himself to be painted as a strong liberal until he's confident in winning the primaries, because for now that's still his base. Certainly for those of us looking at the general election, things are very different.

He will lose his base if he tries to move to the center.  Nader would pick those voters up.

[DarthKosh]

Dean is opposed to gun control.
In Montana that matters a lot.

The whole picture not one issue.  Dean is still going to get his ass handed to him in Montana.

[Cairo_East]

I don't hink he'll win the election, but it'd be quite a bit closer if he was a passionate moderate rather than an angry liberal.

If he is a passionate moderate as you say he would not have the isane left on his side.

The insane left is what it is: delusional.  He's a moderate and will have to lose those freakos that give the Dem's a bad name in order to put up a good show in the election.

[Cairo_East]

Couldn't help but see your signature, CairoEast.  LOL!  The EECS-Electoral College Championship Series!

Great signature.

Thanks.  It's derived from an EC post I made.

[DarthKosh]

I don't hink he'll win the election, but it'd be quite a bit closer if he was a passionate moderate rather than an angry liberal.

If he is a passionate moderate as you say he would not have the isane left on his side.

The insane left is what it is: delusional.  He's a moderate and will have to lose those freakos that give the Dem's a bad name in order to put up a good show in the election.

He shows that he is a "moderate"  and he loses at least 30% of his base in the general.