Cris Survey - Creation of a second chamber.

[Senator Cris]

In the last period, we have heard so much about the creation of a second chamber.
It's time to feel what Atlasia think about this. Please answer my questions. 5 DAYS!

1. Are you in favor or against the creation of a second chamber?

2. Assuming that a new chamber is created. Are you in favor or against the "perfect bicameralism" (both chambers discuss about a bill. To approve a bill is needed the vote of both chambers)?
- Vote "in favor" If you support the "perfect bicameralism".
- Vote "against" If you think that the chambers should deal different things.

3. Assuming that a new chamber of 15/18 members is created. How should be elected the chambers?
- A Senate of 10 members (5 At-Large and 5 from the regions, as it is today) and an House of 15/18 members elected At-Large.
- A Senate of 10 members (5 At-Large and 5 from the regions) and an House of 15/18 members elected by districts.
- A Senate of 10 members (2 Senators elected by each regions, with 2 Classes) and an House of 15/18 members elected At-Large.
- A Senate of 10 members (2 Senators elected by each regions, with 2 Classes) and an House of 15/18 members elected by districts.

4. Assuming that a new chamber of 15/18 members is created and the members elected At-Large. What is the best system?
- The current system, STV.
- The members should be elected proportionally with a blocked list. The party's executive (or with primary) make a list with the candidates with a specific order. The elector should vote a list  (only one list) but can't make preferences. The seats for a list are calculated proportionally. If there are 5 seats, the first 5 of the list are elected.
- The members should be elected proportionally with an open list. The party's executive (or with  primary) make a list with the candidates. The elector should vote a list (only one list) and express a preference/preferences for one (or more) of the list candidates.

5. Assuming that a new chamber of 15/18 members is created and the members elected At-Large proportionally with an open list. How many preferences should be express?
- 1 preference.
- 2 preferences.
- 3 preferences.
- 4 or more preferences.

Thanks to all and sorry for grammatical errors

[Simfan34]

I've always opposed the 'reforms'.

[Maxwell]

15/18 members of the house is way too many, especially if we don't make any sort of sacrifice on the number of regions.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'm in favor of a senate of 6 (region elected), a house of 11(at-large), and consolidation to 3 regions.

[Maxwell]

I'm in favor of a senate of 6 (region elected), a house of 11(at-large), and consolidation to 3 regions.

Yeah, this sounds reasonable to me.

[Oakvale]

I think it's a pretty awful idea in principle (not just in practice). I haven't paid much attention to it since I've been assuming it'll be dead on arrival.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I'm in favor of a senate of 6 (region elected), a house of 11(at-large), and consolidation to 3 regions.

Senate of 5 (one per region), house of 11(2 per region with one elected at-large) and no consolidation.

[Senator Cris]

I'm in favor of a senate of 6 (region elected), a house of 11(at-large), and consolidation to 3 regions.

Senate of 5 (one per region), house of 11(2 per region with one elected at-large) and no consolidation.

[Senator Cris]

My favorite options:

1 - Senate of 10 (2 for each region) and House of 15/18 (Elected proportionally At-Large with an open list)
2 - Senate of 5 (1 for each region) and House of 10/11/12 (Elected proportionally At-Large with an open list).

Against the "perfect bicameralism".

[Senator Cris]

I'm against the perfect bicameralism because, in Italy, the "perfect bicameralism" involves a continue exam of the same bill by both chambers. If a law is approved by the Senate, the law goes to the House and If a part of the law is modified, the entire law returns to the Senate and so on. IMHO, this is too chaotic.

[Simfan34]

This is how it works in the US, too. With the exception of impeachments, budget, things like that.

[GAworth]

Current Senate make-up. 15 House seats max. No to perfect bicameralism. House elected by STV in Districts.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I have two objections:

(1) It's not clear how bicameralism would improve the game.
(2) It's not clear where the people to staff a second legislature would come from, even if several regions were eliminated.

I'm open to argument on (1), but (2) is the black mark on this proposal. Scattering the same number of active people across more offices is harmful to the game. Why undertake regional consolidation, which comes with significant hazards and drawbacks, only to undo its greatest benefit by creating even more offices than were eliminated?

My guess is that, if this were tried, it would work about as well as the Senate Committee System. Making the game more complicated confuses people, discourages participation, and creates more work for the few players who remain. Any reforms that we undertake should make the game more simpler and more accessible. This would do the opposite.

Under my plan no region gets consolidated.

[Simfan34]

Then how the f**k does that work?! We'd just have a profusion of offices.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Yeah bicameralism can't work without it. We have enough trouble filling offices as it is.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Then how the f**k does that work?! We'd just have a profusion of offices.

Only six more than we have currently.

 

Yeah bicameralism can't work without it. We have enough trouble filling offices as it is.

Why should adding six offices federally cost us the existence of my region. We all know the Pacific and Midwest will merge and the IDS and Northeast and maybe the merged Pacific/Midwest will split the pieces of the Mideast under most consolidation maps.

[Adam Griffin]

I'm in favor of a senate of 6 (region elected), a house of 11(at-large), and consolidation to 3 regions.

This is the only system that will come out of it, if any.

I don't know where or why all of these other ideas are being injected into the mix. Adding net offices makes no sense. Leaving five regions in addition to adding a new chamber makes no sense.

The point is to create a new dynamic in the game that has never existed, of course. This game is far from perfect and those who defend some tired structure have no stronger footing to stand on than do those of us who want change for change's sake. The creation of a second chamber is frankly the only compromise solution that can be forged to deal with the problem of too many offices at the regional level/too many regions, which is precisely why you can't add a second chamber with 10+ offices and keep all of the existing ones, for Christ's sake.

I think more than anything, it's an attempt to muddy the waters and diffuse the dialog so much that it has zero chance. That won't be allowed to occur.

[Adam Griffin]

I'm in favor of a senate of 6 (region elected), a house of 11(at-large), and consolidation to 3 regions.

This is the only system that will come out of it, if any.

I don't know where or why all of these other ideas are being injected into the mix. Adding net offices makes no sense. Leaving five regions in addition to adding a new chamber makes no sense.

The point is to create a new dynamic in the game that has never existed, of course, and to make its introduction contingent upon passage of FTRA. This game is far from perfect and those who defend some tired structure have no stronger footing to stand on than do those of us who want change for change's sake. The creation of a second chamber is frankly the only compromise solution that can be forged to deal with the problem of too many offices at the regional level/too many regions, which is precisely why you can't add a second chamber with 10+ offices and keep all of the existing ones, for Christ's sake.

I think more than anything, this is an attempt to muddy the waters and diffuse the dialog so much that it has zero chance. That won't be allowed to occur.

[Adam Griffin]

Why should adding six offices federally cost us the existence of my region.

Because your region is a garbage heap, incapable of maintaining basic activity standards, an active Governor, an active Assembly, etc. It very well may be the most inactive region of the game now, and that's saying a lot when you're worse than the Pacific and/or Midwest, historically-speaking.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Why should adding six offices federally cost us the existence of my region.

Because your region is a garbage heap, incapable of maintaining basic activity standards, an active Governor, an active Assembly, etc. It very well may be the most inactive region of the game now, and that's saying a lot when you're worse than the Pacific and/or Midwest, historically-speaking.

How can we have an active assembly when two thirds of our assemblymen recently joined the senate and we've not heard from the governor about said replacements? He could've had an active assembly had he not appointed one of them to the senate. Trust me. I tried to convince him that his decision was not in the regional best interest but he didn't take me up on my offer.

[Simfan34]

Why should adding six offices federally cost us the existence of my region.

Because your region is a garbage heap, incapable of maintaining basic activity standards, an active Governor, an active Assembly, etc. It very well may be the most inactive region of the game now, and that's saying a lot when you're worse than the Pacific and/or Midwest, historically-speaking.

How can we have an active assembly when two thirds of our assemblymen recently joined the senate and we've not heard from the governor about said replacements? He could've had an active assembly had he not appointed one of them to the senate. Trust me. I tried to convince him that his decision was not in the regional best interest but he didn't take me up on my offer.

You say that merely because you feel entitled to a Senate seat, which is ridiculous. Adam's denigration of the ME is strange; there isn't any especially healthy region of the country at the moment.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Why should adding six offices federally cost us the existence of my region.

Because your region is a garbage heap, incapable of maintaining basic activity standards, an active Governor, an active Assembly, etc. It very well may be the most inactive region of the game now, and that's saying a lot when you're worse than the Pacific and/or Midwest, historically-speaking.

How can we have an active assembly when two thirds of our assemblymen recently joined the senate and we've not heard from the governor about said replacements? He could've had an active assembly had he not appointed one of them to the senate. Trust me. I tried to convince him that his decision was not in the regional best interest but he didn't take me up on my offer.

You say that merely because you feel entitled to a Senate seat, which is ridiculous. Adam's denigration of the ME is strange; there isn't any especially healthy region of the country at the moment.

Had DC not resigned this wouldn't have been an issue.

[Simfan34]

And your point is?