HockeyDude in crisis (military/law knowledge helpful)

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

So here it is.  Several weeks ago in Hawaii I came close to taking my own life.  My time in the US Navy has been, for lack of a better word, disastrous.  With all the good intentions I came in with, the reality of living on a US Navy vessel has become a dibilitating, horrifying experience for me.  Luckily, I decided to call 911 before diving out of a 15th story hotel window.  I did not get in any kind of trouble with my command, but I was referred to a treatment program for alcohol, because I mentioned that I had drank that weekend.  My problem is DEPRESSION, not booze.  I've come to realize that my depression is stemming from the fact that the Navy is just not for me.  I was told that if I refuse the treatment, I will be administratively separated from the Navy.  I would totally do it, but I cannot find any info anywhere about what type of discharge this would be, and what effect it would have on civilian employment.

I'm looking for help, because I'm in a desperate situation.  I had one leg dangling out of a hotel window a few weeks ago, and it's Because I hate where I am.  I want to get out of this place, but I can't do anything that would ruin my civilian life. 

[dead0man]

Generally speaking one has to fark up pretty hard to get a Dishonorable.  If you just kind of fark up you can get a Bad Conduct, if you're just a douche you'll get an Other Than Honorable.  But you won't be getting any of those for this kind of thing, everybody that I've seen kicked got a General Discharge.  Drugs, failure to go, being a drunk, being a generic piece of sh**t, stupid amounts of debt...I've seen it happen lots.

A General won't (or at least won't 99% of the time) hurt you looking for civilian employment.

Good luck.

[Indy Texas]

Please don't kill yourself. I'm in a very unhappy place in life too. I know what it's like to ask if there's any point at all to waking up tomorrow and having to do it all over again. But killing yourself isn't going to make you happy. It's just going to make you not depressed, but that's only because it's going to make you nothing at all because you'll be dead.

I was under the impression that the military has lawyers (JAGs?) for members; or is that only if you're courtmartialed?

Can you request a meeting with a psychiatrist or a therapist? If you can explain your situation to them, perhaps they can provide proof that you need to leave for health reasons. I'm not at all familiar with how that works, though as many recent events have shown, the military is not known for its competence or empathy in dealing with mental health issues.

I don't know if talking to someone on here might help in the meantime, but I would be more than happy to listen to you, as would a lot of other people on here. What is it about the Navy that you're not liking and that's causing you all this grief?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Please don't kill yourself. I'm in a very unhappy place in life too. I know what it's like to ask if there's any point at all to waking up tomorrow and having to do it all over again. But killing yourself isn't going to make you happy. It's just going to make you not depressed, but that's only because it's going to make you nothing at all because you'll be dead.

I was under the impression that the military has lawyers (JAGs?) for members; or is that only if you're courtmartialed?

Can you request a meeting with a psychiatrist or a therapist? If you can explain your situation to them, perhaps they can provide proof that you need to leave for health reasons. I'm not at all familiar with how that works, though as many recent events have shown, the military is not known for its competence or empathy in dealing with mental health issues.

I don't know if talking to someone on here might help in the meantime, but I would be more than happy to listen to you, as would a lot of other people on here. What is it about the Navy that you're not liking and that's causing you all this grief?

Thanks bro.  I've been thru all that stuff, but it's a system.  Every cog in the machine is shaped to keep me working.  I've had several superiors and administrators lie to me about my situation to try to keep me in (especially when they tried to tell me refusal to comply with their reccomendations would be DISHONORABLE, which is reserved for rapists, murderers, assaulters, etc.)  so I've no one here to trust. 

And what about the Navy that is causing me grief?  If only I had the patience abd time to weite that story.  My job is about as miserable as you can imagine something in America could be.  Thats the truth.  And I dont get to go home at the end of the day.   The details would take forever to write about, but please understand that its not the world for a rebellious liberal new age hippie. 

[Mr. Illini]

Thank you for calling 911.

I do not know much about the Navy, but to deny you access to a health professional after almost taking your own life is absurd. Are there services available at your location for members and if so, are they only to be used when given permission by your superiors?

Legally, IndyTexas brought up a great point about JAGs or other military counsel. If that doesn't go through, perhaps you could seek counsel online. There are a number of online legal advice services that may be able to give you advice on what your best moves would be.

Godspeed, and always know that you will feel better soon.

[dead0man]

Yeah, being on a ship for 6 months at a time sounds like torture.  It fits some people just fine, obviously, but it's clearly not for everybody.  Certainly wouldn't be for me.  I'd rather be a brainwashed* Marines than in the Navy.




*that is 63% tongue in cheek, I don't really think they're brainwashed, but they are a special bunch.  The generic stereotypes about the 4 branches are more true than we sometimes wish they were.

[Badger]

Exhaust every option counseling-wise and legal-wise, but NO level of discharge--even "dishonorable"--is so worth avoiding to put your life in mortal risk of such a horrible decision.

BTW, alcohol may not be the root cause, but it doesn't help and feeds the problem. Vicious spiral and all that.

WHATEVER you do, don't take the coward's way out. You and your family both deserve better.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Exhaust every option counseling-wise and legal-wise, but NO level of discharge--even "dishonorable"--is so worth avoiding to put your life in mortal risk of such a horrible decision.

BTW, alcohol may not be the root cause, but it doesn't help and feeds the problem. Vicious spiral and all that.

WHATEVER you do, don't take the coward's way out. You and your family both deserve better.

Badger, your use of the word "coward" is a disgusting insult.  However it turned out, I put myself our there for my country.  It's so funny that we are all heroes but civilians turn on us in the blink of an eye.

[traininthedistance]

Afraid I don't really have any relevant helpful knowledge, but you're in my thoughts.

[WalterMitty]

hockeydude when did you first regret joining the navy?

[MaxQue]

Exhaust every option counseling-wise and legal-wise, but NO level of discharge--even "dishonorable"--is so worth avoiding to put your life in mortal risk of such a horrible decision.

BTW, alcohol may not be the root cause, but it doesn't help and feeds the problem. Vicious spiral and all that.

WHATEVER you do, don't take the coward's way out. You and your family both deserve better.

Badger, your use of the word "coward" is a disgusting insult.  However it turned out, I put myself our there for my country.  It's so funny that we are all heroes but civilians turn on us in the blink of an eye.

I think it's pretty clear (considering the first paragraph) than the "coward's way" isn't discharge, but suicide, which is very selfish and cowardly.

Even a dishoronable discharge is better than death and by quite a margin.

[WalterMitty]

i dont want to be preachy, so i hope i dont come across as such....

i have no idea if you have a drinking problem or not.  but if you are suffering from depression, booze only makes it worse.  i know from first hand experience.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Hockey - you're not cut out for military life and there's nothing wrong or weak about it. I know I couldn't cope with it.

I agree with Badger that you need to exhaust every single avenue of support the military has to offer. But think of it this way, how is your mental health going to be improved, when you're already depressed and in a situation that is triggering it?

I'm sure there are alternative paths that don't end in a dishonourable discharge, they're probably being more dismissive of you than they should be, as they probably have a lot of people get out of their obligations that way... so they're more than likely testing you to see that you're genuine.

In the end, your life is worth more than a dishonorable discharge... but I don't believe it will end up with that.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

hockeydude when did you first regret joining the navy?

Probably after going on leave in May.  It killed me to leave Jersey.

[TDAS04]

Wow, I'm glad you stopped short of suicide.  Please don't consider suicide again, and please get all the help you can get.

I'm afraid I don't have much other advice.  I've been depressed for a long time, but I don't think I'm in as tough of a situation as you are.  Even if the military isn't for you (it certainly isn't for me), it is admirable that you were willing to serve your country like that, and I'm sure that you could serve the the country well as a civilian.

Of course, before you could do that, you need to keep your life.  Make sure you seek assistance in preventing future suicide attempts.  Life is worth living.  You'll be in my thoughts!

[GaussLaw]

Hockey, I am saddened about your situation and I truly hope you can get through it.

Could you tell me what was debilitating about living on a vessel?  I'm sure it's isolating, dingy, and fairly uncomfortable, but is there anything especially bad about it?

This is the first thing you need.

Also, go through alcohol treatment.  Alcohol can worsen depression and you don't want to be on it.

[patrick1]

Hockeydude, I'm glad you literally stepped back from the ledge man. I was at my breaking point a few years ago and everything felt dark and hopeless. I would echo Walter that it is not good to self medicate with the boozer as it only brings you further down into mental and physical despair. Do your best to stay clear headed and start taking the steps to put yourself in a better situation. There is help out there and if you can't get it from Uncle Sam, please seek out other avenues.   Its a cliche, but it is always darkest before the dawn. Added bonus, the Mets are going to be good soon.

[J-Mann]

Exhaust every option counseling-wise and legal-wise, but NO level of discharge--even "dishonorable"--is so worth avoiding to put your life in mortal risk of such a horrible decision.

BTW, alcohol may not be the root cause, but it doesn't help and feeds the problem. Vicious spiral and all that.

WHATEVER you do, don't take the coward's way out. You and your family both deserve better.

Badger, your use of the word "coward" is a disgusting insult.  However it turned out, I put myself our there for my country.  It's so funny that we are all heroes but civilians turn on us in the blink of an eye.

I'm really sorry to read all this -- I wish you the absolute best. Depression and anxiety can be debilitating, and I understand that contemplating suicide just comes with the territory. The important thing is to realize that you have an issue and to seek the necessary help.

I don't know anything about how a discharge would work, but I'd say there should be enough help and support available through the proper channels in the Navy. My understanding was that they were much more lax about discharges for such things than they used to be.

Definitely get help -- speaking from experience, it makes a difference. Let me know if you need anything.

[Badger]

Exhaust every option counseling-wise and legal-wise, but NO level of discharge--even "dishonorable"--is so worth avoiding to put your life in mortal risk of such a horrible decision.

BTW, alcohol may not be the root cause, but it doesn't help and feeds the problem. Vicious spiral and all that.

WHATEVER you do, don't take the coward's way out. You and your family both deserve better.

Badger, your use of the word "coward" is a disgusting insult.  However it turned out, I put myself our there for my country.  It's so funny that we are all heroes but civilians turn on us in the blink of an eye.

I think it's pretty clear (considering the first paragraph) than the "coward's way" isn't discharge, but suicide, which is very selfish and cowardly.

Even a dishoronable discharge is better than death and by quite a margin.

FWIW Hockey Dude, Max is righgt. Suicide is the coward's way out; NOT discharge. At least that's what I meant before.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Generally speaking one has to fark up pretty hard to get a Dishonorable.  If you just kind of fark up you can get a Bad Conduct, if you're just a douche you'll get an Other Than Honorable.  But you won't be getting any of those for this kind of thing, everybody that I've seen kicked got a General Discharge.  Drugs, failure to go, being a drunk, being a generic piece of sh**t, stupid amounts of debt...I've seen it happen lots.

A General won't (or at least won't 99% of the time) hurt you looking for civilian employment.

Good luck.

I did my own research, and it seems you are correct, deado.  Refusal to be treated results in a General Discharge (under honorable conditions).  This seems to be a realistic and responsible way out of the military that will not affect civilian life. 

I feel so much better now. 

Thanks to everyone that responded.  It helped a lot.

[dead0man]

Indeed, the military doesn't want you if you don't want them.  They don't like it, especially so early in ones career (training isn't cheap), but they've found that it's just better to let people go than try to convince them to stay.  Officers are a bit different, but for us enlisted folk, it works out better for everybody if we part ways.

That's not to say you're done either, in my experience the dudes that got kicked out spent at least a month (if not 6) painting, vacuuming, cutting grass, etc while the paper work slowly works it's way around.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Indeed, the military doesn't want you if you don't want them.  They don't like it, especially so early in ones career (training isn't cheap), but they've found that it's just better to let people go than try to convince them to stay.  Officers are a bit different, but for us enlisted folk, it works out better for everybody if we part ways.

That's not to say you're done either, in my experience the dudes that got kicked out spent at least a month (if not 6) painting, vacuuming, cutting grass, etc while the paper work slowly works it's way around.

This is not an issue.  I'd just be grateful that I could head back to Jersey and pick up where I left off in a life I very much took for granted.