St Louis police murder scandal (PLUS: riots, idiotic press conferences, etc.)

[Paul Kemp]

I don't understand why the media keeps portraying him as some innocent teenager who "avoided most of the traps that dragged down many of his peers". Obviously he did not as he liked to rob corner stores.

Because whenever a lightning-rod like event such as this shooting happens, some fraction of the country sees the need to canonize the guy and another fraction wants to paint him as Charles Manson. Both because they need to fit him into the narrative they want to story to fit into.

So what's the narrative we should be running with here? "Man steals cigarillos, should be shot dead in street"?

The worst part of this fiasco is the police response to the protests. Nothing can justify that and the police does need to be de-militarized. That being said, him committing this robbery just 15 minutes prior to his death does change the circumstances there. If he thought he was being arrested, is it possible he acted rashly and did something stupid like reach for the officers gun? We still don't know a lot about what actually happened. If he was shot multiple times in the back, it doesn't really matter what  happened at the corner store. He deserved to be in jail, not dead.

Right. These two points really are the crux of it all. The matter at hand here is the level of proportionality of force and the degree that race plays into it.

[Lief 🗽]

[Grumpier Than Thou]

There's something that all of these people have in common.

[Simfan34]

Indeed, they're all fat.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Indeed, they're all fat.

Nah, the one girl behind the "support our police" sign is thin. It's something else.

[ElectionsGuy]

Could it be that they're all white??

[MaxQue]

The "support our police" guy looks like Rob Ford.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Looks like there's another fight between protesters and the police. Protesters arguing that the tear gas response was unwarranted, police arguing that the protesters were attempting to siege the command area.

[dead0man]

Why are they still rioting?  I guess I can understand the argument in the first days (to get media attention....wrong, of course, but understandable), but at this point it seems VERY counterproductive.

[Lief 🗽]

No one is rioting but the police and a couple looter assholes.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Indeed, they're all fat.

Nah, the one girl behind the "support our police" sign is thin. It's something else.

There's a black guy in the back if you look closely.

And yes, this is a police riot.

[dead0man]

Don't forget that the robbery video was released due to a FOI request. The police department likely wouldn't want to release it otherwise, since it's too weak to be evidence but strong enough to raise tensions.

They didn't want to release it because there is/was still an investigation going on, that is normal protocol.

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He wasn't running away from the cops, he was running back TO the cops.  link

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What I'm guessing happened is this:
1.Mr Brown and his buddy steal some little cigars, store owner confronts them, he physically hassles/threatens the store owner
2.Mr. Brown and buddy leave store
3.several cops are called to the area
4.one of the cop cars (an SUV) sees Brown and buddy walking down the street and asks them to get out of the street
5.Brown assumes that these cops are here to bust him so tries to not get caught, he does that by trying to make sure the cops can't get out of the car
6.when he realizes that ain't going to work he tries to run
7.when he realizes THAT's not going to work he tries to go after the cops again
8.the cops shoot him as he's running towards them
9.everybody freaks out

Yes, these are not the actions of a rational man, which makes me think he was probably high on goofballs.

All just a guess, but it's much more likely than the version of what most people seem to assume what happened.  I'm not saying the cops made no mistakes, then or afterwords.  I'm saying it's ridiculous to freak out, assume the worst before the evidence is in or the investigation is complete.

[Lief 🗽]

The penalty for jaywalking while black: getting shot at least six times

[Beet]

I assume there's a toxicology report in the works.

[Franzl]

Can anyone explain why lethal force would be justifiable even if the accusations are true? Not seeing how any sane person could believe that.

[dead0man]

Can anyone explain why lethal force would be justifiable even if the accusations are true? Not seeing how any sane person could believe that.

Even if a 6'4" 300lb man is running directly at a cop with his gun drawn?  Not 10 seconds after he had physically attacked a cop.  That seems 100% justified.  If he was running away, I will agree with you, but the evidence isn't really pointing that way.

[Lief 🗽]

Police are rioting again tonight. Threatening to shoot a reporter live on air. Firing tear gas at a peaceful crowd, with children in it, without warning and hours before the curfew. Aiming guns at people.

Obama needs to send in the national guard and arrest these piece of sht cops. Shoot them if they resist.

[Lief 🗽]

Meanwhile, the foreign press is sending war reporters to cover the police violence.

[Sbane]

Don't forget that the robbery video was released due to a FOI request. The police department likely wouldn't want to release it otherwise, since it's too weak to be evidence but strong enough to raise tensions.

They didn't want to release it because there is/was still an investigation going on, that is normal protocol.

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He wasn't running away from the cops, he was running back TO the cops.  link

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What I'm guessing happened is this:
1.Mr Brown and his buddy steal some little cigars, store owner confronts them, he physically hassles/threatens the store owner
2.Mr. Brown and buddy leave store
3.several cops are called to the area
4.one of the cop cars (an SUV) sees Brown and buddy walking down the street and asks them to get out of the street
5.Brown assumes that these cops are here to bust him so tries to not get caught, he does that by trying to make sure the cops can't get out of the car
6.when he realizes that ain't going to work he tries to run
7.when he realizes THAT's not going to work he tries to go after the cops again
8.the cops shoot him as he's running towards them
9.everybody freaks out

Yes, these are not the actions of a rational man, which makes me think he was probably high on goofballs.

All just a guess, but it's much more likely than the version of what most people seem to assume what happened.  I'm not saying the cops made no mistakes, then or afterwords.  I'm saying it's ridiculous to freak out, assume the worst before the evidence is in or the investigation is complete.

He may have decided to come back towards the police to negotiate with them or whatever. Did he have his hands up is the question.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Right. There's a difference between saying he was facing the cops and he was barreling toward the cops full speed.

[dead0man]

"and the dude started running, coming towards the cops"

I'm pretty sure the bystander would have mentioned if he was trying to surrender...plus, that's not how one surrenders.  It seems you guys WANT the cop to have murdered this guy more than you want the truth.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Anonymous comments in a youtube video are probably admissible in court, right?

[Sbane]

"and the dude started running, coming towards the cops"

I'm pretty sure the bystander would have mentioned if he was trying to surrender...plus, that's not how one surrenders.  It seems you guys WANT the cop to have murdered this guy more than you want the truth.

So you believe that dude and think everyone who said he had his hands up is lying? Maybe he was heading back towards the cop, gets shot in the arm, raises his hands to surrender and then gets a headshot as Darren Wilson keeps shooting. No matter what happened, I think we can safely say that Mike Brown deserves this years Darwin Award. Assaulting the police, then running away and then heading right back is some retarded behavior.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Michael Brown just looks like your regular teenaged jerk to me.

Depicting him as a violent criminal wouldn't do him justice, since all things considered he didn't do anything worse than - let's say - Justin Bieber. So, what must be cleared up is whether Brown is dead because he wasn't white and rich.

[dead0man]

"and the dude started running, coming towards the cops"

I'm pretty sure the bystander would have mentioned if he was trying to surrender...plus, that's not how one surrenders.  It seems you guys WANT the cop to have murdered this guy more than you want the truth.

So you believe that dude and think everyone who said he had his hands up is lying?

That guy didn't know this was going to be the next "big race story of the month" at the time, he was just an eyewitness telling his story to a buddy a minute after the sh**t went down.  I don't know why he would lie in that situation.  I also don't know who the "everyone" is, most people saying he had his hands up are just parroting the thing that makes Mr Brown look the best.  They're not lying, they are (probably) just missinformed, just like all of us where in the first few days.  As more and more evidence comes out, the "gentle giant" narrative looks more and more silly.

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Maybe.

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Agreed.  Maybe hopped up on goofballs.