Confirmation Hearing: TyriontheImperialist for Vice President (Questioning)
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  Confirmation Hearing: TyriontheImperialist for Vice President (Questioning)
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Author Topic: Confirmation Hearing: TyriontheImperialist for Vice President (Questioning)  (Read 6141 times)
Cranberry
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« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2014, 08:04:22 AM »

My question is somehow related to Senator Cynic's, but would you "debate" along with the Senators in a bill thread, declare your opinions and participate in the overall debate, or will you strictly refrain yourself to administrating the bills on the floor?
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President Tyrion
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« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2014, 02:04:04 PM »

First and foremost of all, you should have been confirmed last time.

Secondly, do you feel that the VP role should be a more active entity a'la Windjammer, or are you more of the belief that the VP should only intervene in Senate procedure when absolutely necessary?

Well, I think that the VP can and should administer executive agenda slots and whatnot, similar to how things worked before Windjammer. Meanwhile...

My question is somehow related to Senator Cynic's, but would you "debate" along with the Senators in a bill thread, declare your opinions and participate in the overall debate, or will you strictly refrain yourself to administrating the bills on the floor?

I do believe the VP should be an active participant in debate, largely because I don't think the VP should be administering all the slots in the first place. I don't believe the VP should strictly administer, because it wouldn't make sense in the context of making tiebreaking votes; I think it would be rather odd to be completely aloof from the structure of debate and then cast an obviously political vote in one way or another.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2014, 05:47:31 PM »

I hereby present myself.

In your term as VP, the massive rule overhaul will likely come up. First off, have your read both the packages composed by Nix and myself respectively (Senate Protest and Analysis Board)?

Then secondly what will your priorities or primary concerns be in such a debate and will you actively participate in said debate actively?

Yes, I have read them (see more commentary on them below), and I certainly plan on being active in debate. The VP is an important part of Senate proceedings and I definitely believe it's my duty to help facilitate or at least participate in debate around the issue.

I definitely do agree with both of you that we need to cut down on the fluff and improve accessibility. That's not a particularly unpopular opinion, of course, so let me outline my positions a bit further. First, I'll address your question:

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I would definitely like to avoid expulsion on political grounds; that would be simply undemocratic. I disagree with nearly all of JCL's views, for example, but he's an elected Senator now, and neither I nor the Senate as a whole should be able to expel him, or Deus, or Polnut, without a proper procedural and apolitical reason.

Here are some other points I'd like to weigh in on:

1. I plan on writing a combined version of the rules at some point. I've already started drafting.

2. I would rather scale up the words (keeping simple language and whatnot) if we can be very, very explicit about succession and acts in "bad faith", in order to keep the Senate running smoothly.

3. One point of "contention" between you and Nix was the use of the Vice President (I say "contention" because I know Nix is very open to commentary and was not at all confrontational about it). I think that's particularly germane to this confirmation hearing, of course. I think the VP's role in Confirmation Hearings is actually preferred, just due to my interpretation as confirmations being in relation to an act of the executive. I like that the seniormost Senator is in charge of the PPT vote; to avoid that being political, we should make sure we have succession in order so that we have a plan for when the Senator in question fails to open the vote (perhaps for fear of losing party control). Maybe we can just say that the vote is automatically opened in some other thread or something after 5 days if it hasn't already.

4. I am currently undecided on the clogging rule.

5. There is much, much more we can talk about here. Do you have anything you'd like me to talk about in specifics?

The area of disagreement was that he scales back the VP aggressively and I remember when the VP could not even be bothered to open a PPT election. I think it would be a mistake to go below that of DemPGH or Cincy in level of involvement. The specifics of what that is applied to can very, but I think that should be the minimum threshold, obviously debated between just PPT and Nomination votes is below that level.

 The clogging rule is necessary for in order slots to be functional, otherwise a Senator could fill the tree and even Nix has previously attached bill wait times to activity. Tree filling is an aspect of the real life Senate we are better off without.

My two other major concern regarding Nix's rule package is the override section. If we include limits on the use of expulsion for instance like you state a desire for on some level, then it would be necessary to exempt the expulsion section. The same should apply to the in-order introduction and clogging provisions.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2014, 05:49:47 PM »

First and foremost of all, you should have been confirmed last time.

Secondly, do you feel that the VP role should be a more active entity a'la Windjammer, or are you more of the belief that the VP should only intervene in Senate procedure when absolutely necessary?

Well, I think that the VP can and should administer executive agenda slots and whatnot, similar to how things worked before Windjammer. Meanwhile...

That reminds me, doesn't Nix's package eliminate the executive slots?
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2014, 07:38:32 PM »

Senator, how do you view the role of Vice President in the situation of a tied-vote situation in the Senate? As in, whose interests should be of primary concern. A tied Senate vote suggests a likely publicly divided response.

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President Tyrion
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« Reply #80 on: September 15, 2014, 03:55:11 AM »

The area of disagreement was that he scales back the VP aggressively and I remember when the VP could not even be bothered to open a PPT election. I think it would be a mistake to go below that of DemPGH or Cincy in level of involvement. The specifics of what that is applied to can very, but I think that should be the minimum threshold, obviously debated between just PPT and Nomination votes is below that level.

 The clogging rule is necessary for in order slots to be functional, otherwise a Senator could fill the tree and even Nix has previously attached bill wait times to activity. Tree filling is an aspect of the real life Senate we are better off without.

My two other major concern regarding Nix's rule package is the override section. If we include limits on the use of expulsion for instance like you state a desire for on some level, then it would be necessary to exempt the expulsion section. The same should apply to the in-order introduction and clogging provisions.

Yeah, and to your point about involvement, my history as a Senator makes me relatively interested in the body's goings on in the first place, so I certainly plan on at least talking a bit more than just during vote administration. I mean, I don't technically hold an office right now and I've been talking plenty.

Clogging might be necessary to prevent complete control of the floor; however, it does seem like a rule largely intended to impact TNF at this point.

I'm not sure what you're referring to on exemptions. If you mean that expulsions should be treated differently with respect to slot usage, then, yes, I certainly agree.

First and foremost of all, you should have been confirmed last time.

Secondly, do you feel that the VP role should be a more active entity a'la Windjammer, or are you more of the belief that the VP should only intervene in Senate procedure when absolutely necessary?

Well, I think that the VP can and should administer executive agenda slots and whatnot, similar to how things worked before Windjammer. Meanwhile...

That reminds me, doesn't Nix's package eliminate the executive slots?

That's my understanding, yes. I'd rather not eliminate them entirely, personally.
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President Tyrion
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« Reply #81 on: September 15, 2014, 04:01:27 AM »

Senator, how do you view the role of Vice President in the situation of a tied-vote situation in the Senate? As in, whose interests should be of primary concern. A tied Senate vote suggests a likely publicly divided response.



Well, voting is necessarily a matter of personal preference. With that said, the VP is one of the last barriers between a bill and its becoming law. As a Senator, I was personally willing to pass bills to my left under Duke largely because I knew he would redraft probably more toward my right anyway, but I'd prefer that to rejecting the bill outright. But as the VP, you have a much firmer idea of what the President plans on doing (redraft, sign, veto), and I can craft my vote accordingly.

Really, the question is not whether or not I'd pass the bill in its current form, but whether I want to reject the bill or accept what happens to the bill once it lands on the President's desk, which is slightly different. And baked into my "willingness to accept" is an understanding of the public perception on an issue. If there's a 10/90 split on the issue in the public, but 5/5 in the Senate, then I think I'd have to very seriously consider WHY the public is so against the bill, and vote accordingly, even contrary to my own beliefs. And, at that point, it probably comes time to think about why I even held those beliefs in the first place. But I figure that sort of introspection is required of anyone who ever casts a vote.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #82 on: September 15, 2014, 06:58:50 PM »

The area of disagreement was that he scales back the VP aggressively and I remember when the VP could not even be bothered to open a PPT election. I think it would be a mistake to go below that of DemPGH or Cincy in level of involvement. The specifics of what that is applied to can very, but I think that should be the minimum threshold, obviously debated between just PPT and Nomination votes is below that level.

 The clogging rule is necessary for in order slots to be functional, otherwise a Senator could fill the tree and even Nix has previously attached bill wait times to activity. Tree filling is an aspect of the real life Senate we are better off without.

My two other major concern regarding Nix's rule package is the override section. If we include limits on the use of expulsion for instance like you state a desire for on some level, then it would be necessary to exempt the expulsion section. The same should apply to the in-order introduction and clogging provisions.

Yeah, and to your point about involvement, my history as a Senator makes me relatively interested in the body's goings on in the first place, so I certainly plan on at least talking a bit more than just during vote administration. I mean, I don't technically hold an office right now and I've been talking plenty.

Clogging might be necessary to prevent complete control of the floor; however, it does seem like a rule largely intended to impact TNF at this point.

I'm not sure what you're referring to on exemptions. If you mean that expulsions should be treated differently with respect to slot usage, then, yes, I certainly agree.

It was passed way back in 2009 and at various points TNF, myself, Lumine were all effected by it at one point in the Spring. It does shut itself down when no other bills are introduced and we had that happen in the June period I think where all other bills were completed. Plus there are other built in exceptions where I kept TNF at four bills at one time.

My wording strengthens that:
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Would you be more favorable at a 4 bill or more clogging limit?

To clarify my other point, I was talking about the bottom of Nix's proposal. The last section contains provision to override the entire text based on a 2/3rds vote. In my view, clogging, in order introduction slots and Expulsion should be exempted from that as they preserve access to the floor/Senate and we get back to the Deus/Polnut situation.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #83 on: September 15, 2014, 07:19:44 PM »

I'm a situation Sad
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President Tyrion
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« Reply #84 on: September 16, 2014, 03:58:25 AM »

The area of disagreement was that he scales back the VP aggressively and I remember when the VP could not even be bothered to open a PPT election. I think it would be a mistake to go below that of DemPGH or Cincy in level of involvement. The specifics of what that is applied to can very, but I think that should be the minimum threshold, obviously debated between just PPT and Nomination votes is below that level.

 The clogging rule is necessary for in order slots to be functional, otherwise a Senator could fill the tree and even Nix has previously attached bill wait times to activity. Tree filling is an aspect of the real life Senate we are better off without.

My two other major concern regarding Nix's rule package is the override section. If we include limits on the use of expulsion for instance like you state a desire for on some level, then it would be necessary to exempt the expulsion section. The same should apply to the in-order introduction and clogging provisions.

Yeah, and to your point about involvement, my history as a Senator makes me relatively interested in the body's goings on in the first place, so I certainly plan on at least talking a bit more than just during vote administration. I mean, I don't technically hold an office right now and I've been talking plenty.

Clogging might be necessary to prevent complete control of the floor; however, it does seem like a rule largely intended to impact TNF at this point.

I'm not sure what you're referring to on exemptions. If you mean that expulsions should be treated differently with respect to slot usage, then, yes, I certainly agree.

It was passed way back in 2009 and at various points TNF, myself, Lumine were all effected by it at one point in the Spring. It does shut itself down when no other bills are introduced and we had that happen in the June period I think where all other bills were completed. Plus there are other built in exceptions where I kept TNF at four bills at one time.

My wording strengthens that:
Quote
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Would you be more favorable at a 4 bill or more clogging limit?

To clarify my other point, I was talking about the bottom of Nix's proposal. The last section contains provision to override the entire text based on a 2/3rds vote. In my view, clogging, in order introduction slots and Expulsion should be exempted from that as they preserve access to the floor/Senate and we get back to the Deus/Polnut situation.

I think I would support a 4-bill clogging rule and an exemption to that particular clause for succession, clogging, order introduction, and expulsion, although that's all negotiable.
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Lumine
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« Reply #85 on: September 16, 2014, 12:24:37 PM »

Four hours left until voting time, I believe.
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Lumine
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« Reply #86 on: September 16, 2014, 06:27:40 PM »

Senators, a vote is now open on the nomination of TyriontheImperialist for Vice President. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2014, 06:29:58 PM »

AYE
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2014, 06:30:27 PM »

Been waiting a whole month for that.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #89 on: September 16, 2014, 06:32:09 PM »


Single member from party of membership.

I was there all 2012 with the IB, whilst you partied it up with the largest party at the time. Wink That's Atlasia.
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Lumine
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« Reply #90 on: September 16, 2014, 09:08:03 PM »

Aye.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2014, 06:55:55 AM »

Thanks, guys, it really means a lot. Having someone behind you who could take over for you if need be puts your mind to rest a bit. I hope I can reciprocate. 


Thank you, Yankee. Btw, I think Stephen would have been a better pick than Edward IV, but the latter works. Wink
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Cassius
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« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2014, 07:17:35 AM »

Aye
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Cranberry
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« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2014, 07:36:20 AM »

AYE
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TNF
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« Reply #94 on: September 17, 2014, 10:58:30 AM »

Aye
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bore
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« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2014, 04:56:39 PM »

Aye
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2014, 08:44:36 PM »

Aye
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #97 on: September 18, 2014, 02:11:59 AM »

AYE
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2014, 12:12:43 PM »

Aye
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #99 on: September 18, 2014, 05:58:18 PM »

Lumine, end this already. You could have yesterday. Tongue
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