Germany admits it "accidentally" spied on Hillary when she was SoS

[Blue3]

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http://news.yahoo.com/german-secret-spied-hillary-clinton-reports-212214449.html

[dead0man]

I know it won't make you or your fellow countrymen feel better, but everybody spies on everybody.  Even you guys on us.

Given how closely entangled the BND seems to be with the CIA sometimes, I'm having doubt about that.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I know it won't make you or your fellow countrymen feel better, but everybody spies on everybody.  Even you guys on us.

Given how closely entangled the BND seems to be with the CIA sometimes, I'm having doubt about that.

Meh, that doesn't change much. It seems that the BND did indeed accidentally wiretap Clinton at one occasion. Kerry too at one point. When they noticed who they had wiretapped,  German intelligence leadership ordered the recordings to be destroyed following BND standard procedure for such incidents. No doubt that the US government will try to capitalize on this to "prove" that the Germans are just as bad and a bunch of hypocrites.

However, there's a difference between this and active, deliberate, and systematic spying. Which Germany apparently does with Turkey though because that's the "NATO partner" whom the BND has permission to spy on as mentioned in the last paragraph of that article (and not America as it is implied there). Which could turn out to be "real" scandal here. Merkel became known for her statement "there can't be spying among friends" which could raise the question to what extent the German government considers Turkey to be a friend.

So, Germany does to Turkey what America does to Germany. But Germany still doesn't do America what America does to Germany.

[Antonio the Sixth]

lol

[Silent Hunter]

So, Germany does to Turkey what America does to Germany. But Germany still doesn't do America what America does to Germany.

Then Germany is stupid.

[dead0man]

I know it won't make you or your fellow countrymen feel better, but everybody spies on everybody.  Even you guys on us.

Given how closely entangled the BND seems to be with the CIA sometimes, I'm having doubt about that.

Meh, that doesn't change much. It seems that the BND did indeed accidentally wiretap Clinton at one occasion. Kerry too at one point.

So your argument is that the BND is so incompetent it regularly "accidentally" sets up wire taps?  Weird.

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I'm pretty sure nobody is going to capitalize on this.  As I said in the other thread, this sh**t happens.  The US govt isn't going to make a big stink about this.

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You're wrong, but it's ok, we're all wrong sometimes.

[Middle-aged Europe]

So, Germany does to Turkey what America does to Germany. But Germany still doesn't do America what America does to Germany.

Then Germany is stupid.

You have to keep in mind that the BND - or at least the Gehlen Organization as its predecessor agency - was essentially founded as an off-shot of the CIA in the late 40s, because that's where their original funding in the early years came from.

For a lot of the older BND people, spying on the United States would mean betraying the roots and the traditions of their own agency.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Meh, that doesn't change much. It seems that the BND did indeed accidentally wiretap Clinton at one occasion. Kerry too at one point.

So your argument is that the BND is so incompetent it regularly "accidentally" sets up wire taps?  Weird.

It’s not my argument, it’s what’s reported on the news. Go look up the details of the incident yourself.

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You're wrong, but it's ok, we're all wrong sometimes.

Stop being so condescending, okay?

[Simfan34]

Carry on.

[JohnCA246]

I'm outraged!

[swl]

Now we are learning that Germany tapped John Kerry's phone. ^^

[Indy Texas]

I believe Schadenfreude is a German word.

[Middle-aged Europe]

The accidental phone tappings of Clinton and Kerry were - in German intelligence terminology - so-called "bycatches": information they received without actually looking for them as a by-product of an different operation. It's pretty self-explanatory: When you tap a phone you're effectively tapping two phones because there's always someone on the other end of the line.

As for the active and deliberate spying on Turkey: The Turkish government is acting pretty pissed, while German politicians (ranging from the CDU to the Greens) started to defend it as a measure which is quite normal and also "necessary" for the security of Germany. Which of course mirrors the reactions we saw from the German government and American politicians when it was revealed that America spied on Germany, albeit with different roles.

This is the hypocrisy here, not the Clinton stuff although I understand that is more exciting because it involves the United States.