Rick Perry indicted on abuse of power
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Simfan34
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« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2014, 09:05:32 AM »
« edited: August 16, 2014, 09:08:46 AM by Simfan34 »

Isn't this the same DA's office that tried to indict Kay Bailey Hutchison for having her aide pick up lipstick, and the very same that convicted DeLay of those charges of which he was acquitted? Yeah, this seems to be a political hit squad masquerading as a legal authority. For Hutchinson it was because the DA had wanted to be appointed to the senate vacancy she filled. Now it's because this DA refused to quit. It's a personal vendetta, again.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2014, 09:22:34 AM »

Isn't this the same DA's office that tried to indict Kay Bailey Hutchison for having her aide pick up lipstick, and the very same that convicted DeLay of those charges of which he was acquitted? Yeah, this seems to be a political hit squad masquerading as a legal authority. For Hutchinson it was because the DA had wanted to be appointed to the senate vacancy she filled. Now it's because this DA refused to quit. It's a personal vendetta, again.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2014, 09:31:33 AM »

Why must we have three threads on this? It's extraordinarily annoying.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2014, 10:09:04 AM »

Elected officials have no right to interfere in judicial proceedings. When such happens one of the cornerstones of classical liberalism, to wit an independent judiciary, is shattered.   
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2014, 10:25:06 AM »

Christie and Perry sidelined by self inflicted wounds.

No big loss.
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Bull Moose Base
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2014, 03:01:30 PM »

I don't believe this one will be particularly harmful. The belief that the following prosecutor should resign after her arrest for drunk driving does not seem controversial.

I'll take you one further: this will end up helping Perry. What he did isn't just uncontroversial, it'll be applauded, especially by Republican primary voters. Perry can legitimately claim to be unfairly targeted by liberals for the kind of executive behavior they like. And it all would have gone completely unnoticed but for this indictment. This is the DA's oops.
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BlueSwan
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2014, 03:18:51 PM »

I don't believe this one will be particularly harmful. The belief that the following prosecutor should resign after her arrest for drunk driving does not seem controversial.

I'll take you one further: this will end up helping Perry. What he did isn't just uncontroversial, it'll be applauded, especially by Republican primary voters. Perry can legitimately claim to be unfairly targeted by liberals for the kind of executive behavior they like. And it all would have gone completely unnoticed but for this indictment. This is the DA's oops.
Yup, I agree. Democrats would do well to stay totally out of this. Criticizing Perry for this could easily backfire. Even Rachel Maddow couldn't really get properly worked up over it last night.
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Pandaguineapig
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2014, 05:01:15 PM »

I'm not a Rick Perry fan but I fail to see what law he broke
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GaussLaw
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2014, 05:55:05 PM »

I don't believe this one will be particularly harmful. The belief that the following prosecutor should resign after her arrest for drunk driving does not seem controversial.

I'll take you one further: this will end up helping Perry. What he did isn't just uncontroversial, it'll be applauded, especially by Republican primary voters. Perry can legitimately claim to be unfairly targeted by liberals for the kind of executive behavior they like. And it all would have gone completely unnoticed but for this indictment. This is the DA's oops.
Yup, I agree. Democrats would do well to stay totally out of this. Criticizing Perry for this could easily backfire. Even Rachel Maddow couldn't really get properly worked up over it last night.

Me too.  When I read what Perry did, I thought "Good for him.  DUI is a crime."  This is hardly 119-years-in-prison material.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2014, 06:06:10 PM »

I don't believe this one will be particularly harmful. The belief that the following prosecutor should resign after her arrest for drunk driving does not seem controversial.

I'll take you one further: this will end up helping Perry. What he did isn't just uncontroversial, it'll be applauded, especially by Republican primary voters. Perry can legitimately claim to be unfairly targeted by liberals for the kind of executive behavior they like. And it all would have gone completely unnoticed but for this indictment. This is the DA's oops.

It's sickening but true. Right-wingers tolerate much roguishness in their political heroes that liberals would never tolerate. They could tolerate that George W. Bush could mock someone who begged him to commute a death sentence. They could tolerate that aides of  former Senator George Allen could beat a heckler or that Senator David Vitter could have his name in the client list of a DC madam. They could tolerate Karl Rove outing a CIA operative as revenge against a diplomat who contradicted the alleged justification for invading Iraq in 2003 (Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen deservedly rot in a federal Supermax for exposing American agents, but it is fine for Karl Rove to do so).  They can tolerate the borderline insanity of people who accuse Barack Obama not truly being an American.  They tolerate lies, diplomatic bullying, and warmongering. They see nothing wrong with the drain-and-dump business practices and pathological narcissism of Mitt Romney. 

Here's a 2006 book review of John Dean's Conservatives Without a Conscience. I warn you that it comes from the People's World, a Communist publication. The review is OK until it starts discussing the class struggle.  But it is a book review:

http://www.peoplesworld.org/conservatives-without-conscience-an-insider-views-the-gop-s-ominous-politics/

A long PDF on people like Rick Perry and the sorts of people who vote for his type:

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2014, 07:14:07 PM »

Perry's potential 2016 rivals are defending him:

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/ted-cruz-defends-rick-perry-110077.html?hp=l4

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Mister Mets
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« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2014, 08:47:03 AM »

I don't believe this one will be particularly harmful. The belief that the following prosecutor should resign after her arrest for drunk driving does not seem controversial.

I'll take you one further: this will end up helping Perry. What he did isn't just uncontroversial, it'll be applauded, especially by Republican primary voters. Perry can legitimately claim to be unfairly targeted by liberals for the kind of executive behavior they like. And it all would have gone completely unnoticed but for this indictment. This is the DA's oops.

It's sickening but true. Right-wingers tolerate much roguishness in their political heroes that liberals would never tolerate. They could tolerate that George W. Bush could mock someone who begged him to commute a death sentence. They could tolerate that aides of  former Senator George Allen could beat a heckler or that Senator David Vitter could have his name in the client list of a DC madam. They could tolerate Karl Rove outing a CIA operative as revenge against a diplomat who contradicted the alleged justification for invading Iraq in 2003 (Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen deservedly rot in a federal Supermax for exposing American agents, but it is fine for Karl Rove to do so).  They can tolerate the borderline insanity of people who accuse Barack Obama not truly being an American.  They tolerate lies, diplomatic bullying, and warmongering. They see nothing wrong with the drain-and-dump business practices and pathological narcissism of Mitt Romney. 

Here's a 2006 book review of John Dean's Conservatives Without a Conscience. I warn you that it comes from the People's World, a Communist publication. The review is OK until it starts discussing the class struggle.  But it is a book review:

http://www.peoplesworld.org/conservatives-without-conscience-an-insider-views-the-gop-s-ominous-politics/

A long PDF on people like Rick Perry and the sorts of people who vote for his type:

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

There seem to be two kinds of responses to Perry's indictment: Partisans happy to see a prominent Republican indicted. People who understand the case, and see the indictment as either outrageous or perplexing. There may also be Republicans who reflexively defend Perry without caring about the specifics of the case, but at least they're in the right on this one.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/strange-case-rick-perry?src=mp

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/08/rick-perry-indictment-is-unbelievably-ridiculous.html

Some of the examples of partisan support are flawed. Many situations aren't as clear-cut and neither side is perfect. Karl Rove's not as popular among Republicans at the moment, and his role in the Plame Affair is muddy. Bill Clinton executed a guy so brain damaged he left behind some pecan pie in his last meal to save for later. Andrew Cuomo tried to shut down the Moreland Commission when they were investigating his backers. It seems hypocritical to blast Republicans for supporting former Bain CEO Romney, when Obama selects a former Bain executive as his chief economic adviser.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2014, 12:55:51 PM »

Isn't this the same DA's office that tried to indict Kay Bailey Hutchison for having her aide pick up lipstick, and the very same that convicted DeLay of those charges of which he was acquitted? Yeah, this seems to be a political hit squad masquerading as a legal authority. For Hutchinson it was because the DA had wanted to be appointed to the senate vacancy she filled. Now it's because this DA refused to quit. It's a personal vendetta, again.

IT WASN'T THE TRAVIS COUNTY D.A., PEOPLE!!! The special prosecutor wasn't from Austin or Travis County and neither was the grand jury.

As for Ronnie Earle's previous crusades, while I like KBH politically, everyone with the slightest knowledge of inside Texas politics knows she's a psycho bitch who throws phone books and retained a staffer who basically did nothing other than carry her purse and keep her makeup organized. And Tom DeLay, if what he did wasn't illegal, it should be.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2014, 11:53:25 PM »

Isn't this the same DA's office that tried to indict Kay Bailey Hutchison for having her aide pick up lipstick, and the very same that convicted DeLay of those charges of which he was acquitted? Yeah, this seems to be a political hit squad masquerading as a legal authority. For Hutchinson it was because the DA had wanted to be appointed to the senate vacancy she filled. Now it's because this DA refused to quit. It's a personal vendetta, again.

IT WASN'T THE TRAVIS COUNTY D.A., PEOPLE!!! The special prosecutor wasn't from Austin or Travis County and neither was the grand jury.
The grand jury most certainly was from Travis County.

Did you even read the indictment before you spasmed?
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2014, 06:42:58 AM »

I don't live in Texas, so I have my own filter. Texas has some strange politics.

Elected officials have no right to interfere in the judicial process for partisan ends. A state governor may use pardons and commutations as permitted by the State constitution, but that is as far as it goes. The governor cannot fire a judge or diminish his pay (which is a constructive firing) for political purposes.

An indictment has been made, and that does not itself imply guilt -- just that a case for prosecution exists. That is all.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2014, 05:29:44 PM »

The way the right wing media is spinning this has to be the funniest thing ever. Yes, people are arguing that getting indicted will actually HELP Perry's presidential run. Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton says she's dead broke 2 months ago, and we get: "IT'S OVER! MITT ROMNEY 2.0! SHE HAS NO CHANCE!"
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2014, 06:12:21 PM »

Perry now suggests the indictment may be a plot to derail his presidential hopes:

link
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2014, 06:23:13 PM »

I don't believe this one will be particularly harmful. The belief that the following prosecutor should resign after her arrest for drunk driving does not seem controversial.

I'll take you one further: this will end up helping Perry. What he did isn't just uncontroversial, it'll be applauded, especially by Republican primary voters. Perry can legitimately claim to be unfairly targeted by liberals for the kind of executive behavior they like. And it all would have gone completely unnoticed but for this indictment. This is the DA's oops.

And then he can grow a handlebar mustache, start wearing a Lone Star armband, and start talking about his struggle against the corrupt establishment. But which minority group will he blame for all America's problems?
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2014, 06:30:39 PM »

I don't live in Texas, so I have my own filter. Texas has some strange politics.

Elected officials have no right to interfere in the judicial process for partisan ends. A state governor may use pardons and commutations as permitted by the State constitution, but that is as far as it goes. The governor cannot fire a judge or diminish his pay (which is a constructive firing) for political purposes.

An indictment has been made, and that does not itself imply guilt -- just that a case for prosecution exists. That is all.

It's good to see that someone gets it. I keep seeing this really, really nasty meme that it's okay to blatantly break the law if you're doing to to "punish" a wrong-doer (alleged or otherwise). Does anyone think that what Perry did would have been just dandy if he'd done it because the person he was targeting was hispanic? Or gay? Or Muslim? The ends DO NOT justify the means - if a civilization start ignoring its own laws because it think that is true, then its doomed.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2014, 12:19:40 AM »

I don't live in Texas, so I have my own filter. Texas has some strange politics.

Elected officials have no right to interfere in the judicial process for partisan ends. A state governor may use pardons and commutations as permitted by the State constitution, but that is as far as it goes. The governor cannot fire a judge or diminish his pay (which is a constructive firing) for political purposes.

An indictment has been made, and that does not itself imply guilt -- just that a case for prosecution exists. That is all.

It's good to see that someone gets it. I keep seeing this really, really nasty meme that it's okay to blatantly break the law if you're doing to to "punish" a wrong-doer (alleged or otherwise). Does anyone think that what Perry did would have been just dandy if he'd done it because the person he was targeting was hispanic? Or gay? Or Muslim? The ends DO NOT justify the means - if a civilization start ignoring its own laws because it think that is true, then its doomed.
What law was "blatantly" broken?
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Mister Mets
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« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2014, 07:21:43 AM »

I don't live in Texas, so I have my own filter. Texas has some strange politics.

Elected officials have no right to interfere in the judicial process for partisan ends. A state governor may use pardons and commutations as permitted by the State constitution, but that is as far as it goes. The governor cannot fire a judge or diminish his pay (which is a constructive firing) for political purposes.

An indictment has been made, and that does not itself imply guilt -- just that a case for prosecution exists. That is all.

It's good to see that someone gets it. I keep seeing this really, really nasty meme that it's okay to blatantly break the law if you're doing to to "punish" a wrong-doer (alleged or otherwise). Does anyone think that what Perry did would have been just dandy if he'd done it because the person he was targeting was hispanic? Or gay? Or Muslim? The ends DO NOT justify the means - if a civilization start ignoring its own laws because it think that is true, then its doomed.
There are two aspects here. How bad does it look for Perry? Did he break the law?

The DA's drunk driving arrest/ behavior fits both discussions. Primarily we've talked about the former, but it's still relevant for the latter.

As Governor, Perry has veto powers. And he is also able to say that he will use the veto powers under certain circumstances.

He wouldn't be able to use the veto powers to remove someone for being gay, Muslim or Hispanic. However, a prosecutor serving three weeks in jail for drunk driving, who is videotaped trying to pull rank on the officers around her, is not the moral equivalent of someone who is a victim of discrimination. She did something that's clearly wrong.
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SteveRogers
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« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2014, 03:38:40 PM »

I don't live in Texas, so I have my own filter. Texas has some strange politics.

Elected officials have no right to interfere in the judicial process for partisan ends. A state governor may use pardons and commutations as permitted by the State constitution, but that is as far as it goes. The governor cannot fire a judge or diminish his pay (which is a constructive firing) for political purposes.

An indictment has been made, and that does not itself imply guilt -- just that a case for prosecution exists. That is all.

It's good to see that someone gets it. I keep seeing this really, really nasty meme that it's okay to blatantly break the law if you're doing to to "punish" a wrong-doer (alleged or otherwise). Does anyone think that what Perry did would have been just dandy if he'd done it because the person he was targeting was hispanic? Or gay? Or Muslim? The ends DO NOT justify the means - if a civilization start ignoring its own laws because it think that is true, then its doomed.
There are two aspects here. How bad does it look for Perry? Did he break the law?

The DA's drunk driving arrest/ behavior fits both discussions. Primarily we've talked about the former, but it's still relevant for the latter.

As Governor, Perry has veto powers. And he is also able to say that he will use the veto powers under certain circumstances.

He wouldn't be able to use the veto powers to remove someone for being gay, Muslim or Hispanic. However, a prosecutor serving three weeks in jail for drunk driving, who is videotaped trying to pull rank on the officers around her, is not the moral equivalent of someone who is a victim of discrimination. She did something that's clearly wrong.

But this is a case of two wrongs not making a right. Should the Travis County DA have stepped down? Probably. But that doesn't make it ok to then extort that public official or their agency. Using the veto power to force a public official to resign is either an abuse of power according to the law or it isn't. I think the legal question here is an iffy one. The law is vague enough that it can probably be stretched to make this fit. But in any case, the morality of the public official being coerced is wholly irrelevant to the legality of the coercive action.


Anyway, Perry will be turning himself in today for his mugshot and fingerprinting.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-perry-to-turn-himself-in/
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IceSpear
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« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2014, 04:06:33 PM »

I don't live in Texas, so I have my own filter. Texas has some strange politics.

Elected officials have no right to interfere in the judicial process for partisan ends. A state governor may use pardons and commutations as permitted by the State constitution, but that is as far as it goes. The governor cannot fire a judge or diminish his pay (which is a constructive firing) for political purposes.

An indictment has been made, and that does not itself imply guilt -- just that a case for prosecution exists. That is all.

It's good to see that someone gets it. I keep seeing this really, really nasty meme that it's okay to blatantly break the law if you're doing to to "punish" a wrong-doer (alleged or otherwise). Does anyone think that what Perry did would have been just dandy if he'd done it because the person he was targeting was hispanic? Or gay? Or Muslim? The ends DO NOT justify the means - if a civilization start ignoring its own laws because it think that is true, then its doomed.
There are two aspects here. How bad does it look for Perry? Did he break the law?

The DA's drunk driving arrest/ behavior fits both discussions. Primarily we've talked about the former, but it's still relevant for the latter.

As Governor, Perry has veto powers. And he is also able to say that he will use the veto powers under certain circumstances.

He wouldn't be able to use the veto powers to remove someone for being gay, Muslim or Hispanic. However, a prosecutor serving three weeks in jail for drunk driving, who is videotaped trying to pull rank on the officers around her, is not the moral equivalent of someone who is a victim of discrimination. She did something that's clearly wrong.

But this is a case of two wrongs not making a right. Should the Travis County DA have stepped down? Probably. But that doesn't make it ok to then extort that public official or their agency. Using the veto power to force a public official to resign is either an abuse of power according to the law or it isn't. I think the legal question here is an iffy one. The law is vague enough that it can probably be stretched to make this fit. But in any case, the morality of the public official being coerced is wholly irrelevant to the legality of the coercive action.


Anyway, Perry will be turning himself in today for his mugshot and fingerprinting.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-perry-to-turn-himself-in/

Can't wait to see his mugshot, LOL.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2014, 08:43:51 PM »

Here's the mugshot:


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"'Oeps!' De blunders van Rick Perry Indicted"
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« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2014, 09:12:54 PM »


Liked.
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