FiveThirtyEight: "The Rand Paul Will Win Over Young Voters Myth"
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Author Topic: FiveThirtyEight: "The Rand Paul Will Win Over Young Voters Myth"  (Read 3361 times)
Deus Naturae
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2014, 07:49:20 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

But... drones?
Believe it or, some people care more about not blowing up villages in the Middle East and violating the Constitutional rights of countless people than they do about Social Security. You might not like it, but sometimes people have different priorities than you.

I wasn't aware people only had one issue to care about.
They don't, but they care more about some than others. What's so bad about that?
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Free Bird
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2014, 07:50:10 PM »

Rand Paul will do exactly as well against Hillary Clinton as his father did against Barack Obama.
Poll consistently equal with her if not better?

I'm not sure. I don't bother paying attention to how either Paul would do in a general.

Then why even say anything?
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Illuminati Blood Drinker
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2014, 07:53:29 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

But... drones?
Believe it or, some people care more about not blowing up villages in the Middle East and violating the Constitutional rights of countless people than they do about Social Security. You might not like it, but sometimes people have different priorities than you.

Like allowing private businesses to turn away darkies because "muh private enterprise"? I'd think that's a tad more important than droning a terrorist enclave in Yemen or collecting telephone metadata, but that's just me.
Aww look at you thinking libertarians accept black people are human.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2014, 08:01:18 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

But... drones?
Believe it or, some people care more about not blowing up villages in the Middle East and violating the Constitutional rights of countless people than they do about Social Security. You might not like it, but sometimes people have different priorities than you.

Like allowing private businesses to turn away darkies because "muh private enterprise"? I'd think that's a tad more important than droning a terrorist enclave in Yemen or collecting telephone metadata, but that's just me.
Aww look at you thinking libertarians accept black people are human.
Why are practically all of your posts idiotic straw men? True leftists support ISIS, libertarians are racist, etc. Give me a break.

Then again, I guess claiming that Rand Paul is a racist helps you forget about all of the foreign blood on the hands of jihadist supporters like Hillary.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2014, 08:07:52 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

But... drones?
Believe it or, some people care more about not blowing up villages in the Middle East and violating the Constitutional rights of countless people than they do about Social Security. You might not like it, but sometimes people have different priorities than you.

Like allowing private businesses to turn away darkies because "muh private enterprise"? I'd think that's a tad more important than droning a terrorist enclave in Yemen or collecting telephone metadata, but that's just me.
Aww look at you thinking libertarians accept black people are human.
Why are practically all of your posts idiotic straw men? True leftists support ISIS, libertarians are racist, etc. Give me a break.

Then again, I guess claiming that Rand Paul is a racist helps you forget about all of the foreign blood on the hands of jihadist supporters like Hillary.

You didn't answer why the consitutional rights of white people to not get wiretapped takes precedence over the constitutional rights of minorities to not get turned away from their local grocery store if the owner doesn't take well to "their kind".
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whanztastic
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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2014, 08:11:51 PM »

A majority of Millennials say they support larger and more government intervention in the economy, explicitly. There's no wiggling out of that.
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2014, 08:12:50 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

I'd hardly say Dems prioritize social issues more.  The 2012 campaign was about 110% trying to paint Romney as an evil, rich boogeyman.
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Bull Moose Base
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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2014, 08:20:37 PM »

Rand Paul will do exactly as well against Hillary Clinton as his father did against Barack Obama.
Poll consistently equal with her if not better?

I'm not sure. I don't bother paying attention to how either Paul would do in a general.


Then why even say anything?

Everyone seemed to be implying we'll eventually find out how Paul will do in a general election, so I thought it was worth pointing out no, we never will.
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SWE
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« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2014, 08:51:12 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

But... drones?
Believe it or, some people care more about not blowing up villages in the Middle East and violating the Constitutional rights of countless people than they do about Social Security. You might not like it, but sometimes people have different priorities than you.

Like allowing private businesses to turn away darkies because "muh private enterprise"? I'd think that's a tad more important than droning a terrorist enclave in Yemen or collecting telephone metadata, but that's just me.
Aww look at you thinking libertarians accept black people are human.
Why are practically all of your posts idiotic straw men? True leftists support ISIS, libertarians are racist, etc. Give me a break.

Then again, I guess claiming that Rand Paul is a racist helps you forget about all of the foreign blood on the hands of jihadist supporters like Hillary.

You didn't answer why the consitutional rights of white people to not get wiretapped takes precedence over the constitutional rights of minorities to not get turned away from their local grocery store if the owner doesn't take well to "their kind".
Why are white people the only one's who are affected by NSA spying?
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IceSpear
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« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2014, 08:56:13 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

I'd hardly say Dems prioritize social issues more.  The 2012 campaign was about 110% trying to paint Romney as an evil, rich boogeyman.

True, but that was a personal character attack as opposed to an actual issue based attack. The difference between "Romney is an out of touch rich guy" and "We need to up the tax rates on out of touch rich guys and use it to fund _____", for instance.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2014, 08:58:38 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

But... drones?
Believe it or, some people care more about not blowing up villages in the Middle East and violating the Constitutional rights of countless people than they do about Social Security. You might not like it, but sometimes people have different priorities than you.

Like allowing private businesses to turn away darkies because "muh private enterprise"? I'd think that's a tad more important than droning a terrorist enclave in Yemen or collecting telephone metadata, but that's just me.
Aww look at you thinking libertarians accept black people are human.
Why are practically all of your posts idiotic straw men? True leftists support ISIS, libertarians are racist, etc. Give me a break.

Then again, I guess claiming that Rand Paul is a racist helps you forget about all of the foreign blood on the hands of jihadist supporters like Hillary.

You didn't answer why the consitutional rights of white people to not get wiretapped takes precedence over the constitutional rights of minorities to not get turned away from their local grocery store if the owner doesn't take well to "their kind".
Why are white people the only one's who are affected by NSA spying?

They aren't, but I'm pretty sure for most minorities (and for anyone concerned with constitutional rights, for that matter) the latter issue would take precedence over the former. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending wiretapping, but to use that as evidence of how libertarians "fight for liberty", while glossing over the fact that some libertarians (including Ron Paul, and Rand until his flip flop) fight to deny liberty to minorities on a much greater scale is just ridiculous.

Anyway, with regards to Rand Paul and the CRA, either he was lying then or he's lying now. It was in no way a slip of the tongue or an accident. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he would either stick with his original position or admit that he was wrong and say that his position has changed. Say what you want about Hillary Clinton, at least she had the courage to state flat out that she was wrong about Iraq. Rand Paul hides behind a facade of "I was misquoted!/Taken out of context!" when confronted with his flip flops on both this and other things such as foreign aid to Israel.
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NHLiberal
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« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2014, 09:23:06 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

But... drones?
Believe it or, some people care more about not blowing up villages in the Middle East and violating the Constitutional rights of countless people than they do about Social Security. You might not like it, but sometimes people have different priorities than you.

Like allowing private businesses to turn away darkies because "muh private enterprise"? I'd think that's a tad more important than droning a terrorist enclave in Yemen or collecting telephone metadata, but that's just me.
Aww look at you thinking libertarians accept black people are human.

Huh Shocked Huh Shocked
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2014, 09:41:16 PM »

Dude, have you ever actually read what Rand said? Back when he said that he was uncomfortable with one aspect of the law, he still maintained that he would've voted for it anyway as the majority of it far outweighed whatever doubts he might've had. So, he always supported the CRA, and is not lying about it now.

Anyway, suppose a hypothetical President Paul were to magically repeal the portion of the CRA applying to private businesses. Racist businesses are not just going to start springing up everywhere...most likely businesses in places that are already very racist and probably already do discriminate (like that guy in Oklahoma) will just be more open about it. Compare that to all of the people whose lives have been ruined by drug sentencing laws, people who have been held and tortured without trial, people who have been droned and bombed in the Middle East, people who have been illegally surveilled on their personal devices and groped in airports. Consider how many of these people have suffered like this because of racist profiling. When you take all of that into account, can't you at the very least see the reasoning behind people who think that Rand would be better than Hillary, even if they don't agree with him on an irrelevant issue he would never pursue if elected?
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IceSpear
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« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2014, 09:51:47 PM »

Dude, have you ever actually read what Rand said? Back when he said that he was uncomfortable with one aspect of the law, he still maintained that he would've voted for it anyway as the majority of it far outweighed whatever doubts he might've had. So, he always supported the CRA, and is not lying about it now.

Anyway, suppose a hypothetical President Paul were to magically repeal the portion of the CRA applying to private businesses. Racist businesses are not just going to start springing up everywhere...most likely businesses in places that are already very racist and probably already do discriminate (like that guy in Oklahoma) will just be more open about it. Compare that to all of the people whose lives have been ruined by drug sentencing laws, people who have been held and tortured without trial, people who have been droned and bombed in the Middle East, people who have been illegally surveilled on their personal devices and groped in airports. Consider how many of these people have suffered like this because of racist profiling. When you take all of that into account, can't you at the very least see the reasoning behind people who think that Rand would be better than Hillary, even if they don't agree with him on an irrelevant issue he would never pursue if elected?

Yes, I did read what he said. The fact that he would've supported the CRA anyway, despite his bizarre misgivings coming from someone in the 21st century, doesn't change the fact that his preferred version of the CRA would allow private businesses to have "whites only" signs.

Yes, racist businesses wouldn't immediately spring up, because we live in the 21st century. However, even one is too many. But had Rand gotten his way back when the act was signed, ending segregation would've been a lot more difficult. And for what purpose? Solely due to ideology or "principle"?

The problem is you're assuming Paul will do the things you like and not do the things you dislike. In regards to what you listed, I'm pretty sure Obama talked really good on all those issues as well. How did that turn out again? Besides, my original statement wasn't really aimed at you anyway. You're a libertarian (presumably), so I'd expect you to support Paul. I talked about how I didn't understand why "leftists" would support Paul, but I'm guessing it goes back to the inexplicable "he'll do the things I like and not the things I dislike" thing.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2014, 10:04:29 PM »

The problem is you're assuming Paul will do the things you like and not do the things you dislike. In regards to what you listed, I'm pretty sure Obama talked really good on all those issues as well. How did that turn out again? Besides, my original statement wasn't really aimed at you anyway. You're a libertarian (presumably), so I'd expect you to support Paul. I talked about how I didn't understand why "leftists" would support Paul, but I'm guessing it goes back to the inexplicable "he'll do the things I like and not the things I dislike" thing.
Except that there is zero chance that he would every pursue the CRA issue if elected. It would have no chance whatsoever of succeeding, it would be a PR disaster, and based on his recent statements he just wishes that people would forget he ever said anything about it. In my previous post, I already listed a bunch of reasons that some leftists, even (or perhaps especially) those concerned with racism would have to support Paul over Clinton. The President has more control over foreign policy and the actions of Federal agencies like the NSA than he does over economic policy, so I don't know why you assume that he would only do things that anti-war leftist types dislike and nothing they would approve of.
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« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2014, 10:21:32 PM »

OMG ... he loves "liberty" ... can't wait to see how his arguments to privatise social security and his views on abortion and same-sex marriage, go down with the youngns. Let alone his arse-backwards view on the economy.

Well obviously he and warmonger and domestic spying supporter Hillary are both terrible on liberty.
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« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2014, 10:52:35 PM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

But... drones?
Believe it or, some people care more about not blowing up villages in the Middle East and violating the Constitutional rights of countless people than they do about Social Security. You might not like it, but sometimes people have different priorities than you.

Like allowing private businesses to turn away darkies because "muh private enterprise"? I'd think that's a tad more important than droning a terrorist enclave in Yemen or collecting telephone metadata, but that's just me.
Aww look at you thinking libertarians accept black people are human.

Stop being a twat.
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« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2014, 12:22:56 AM »

The notion that people will discard their beliefs on abortion, gay rights, healthcare, the Civil Rights Act, the environment, etc. just because of muh foreign policy is hilarious.
Look at how True Leftists talk up the Libertarians - who openly want to destroy the social safety net - because of MUH NSA and MUH DRONES.

Yeah, I don't get it. In my experience with True Leftists, their main problem with the Democrats tends to be that they prioritize social issues over economic ones, which is a fair concern. But if that's the case, you'd think libertarians would be their worst enemy.

But... drones?
Believe it or, some people care more about not blowing up villages in the Middle East and violating the Constitutional rights of countless people than they do about Social Security. You might not like it, but sometimes people have different priorities than you.

Like allowing private businesses to turn away darkies because "muh private enterprise"? I'd think that's a tad more important than droning a terrorist enclave in Yemen or collecting telephone metadata, but that's just me.
Aww look at you thinking libertarians accept black people are human.

Stop being a twat.

Libertarians come in two flavors.  The first flavor of libertarian is a racist, misogynist, upper middle class white male who seeks to further buttress his privileged position in society.  He is an unapologetic reactionary who loves to thump the constitution proudly, nostalgic for a time where rich white men like himself had the freedom to kill and enslave black people as well as beat and rape women without the government stopping them. 

The second flavor is a white, nerdy teenage boy who posts on Reddit.  He happens to stumble across the libertarianism wiki page or a Stephan Molyneux video on YouTube and is too mentally underdeveloped to understand the fallacious nature of the ideology and is too ignorant to understand basic economics.  Most of these people will grow up to become Republicans.

I think a lot of people run across many of the second kind of person on the internet and assume, "wow, there are a lot of libertarian millennials!" when in fact it's just a few loud, ignorant children on the internet.  This article demonstrates how, luckily, few millennials actually support theocratic race-baiting neoconfederate political dinosaurs like Rand Paul.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2014, 02:45:50 AM »


Oh dear.
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dmmidmi
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« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2014, 06:58:14 AM »

Jesus H. This thread makes this thread look like intelligent debate: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=197282.0
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Rockefeller GOP
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« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2014, 11:08:45 AM »

Regardless of your side in the argument, the generalizations of entire groups of people on here is getting out of hand.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2014, 11:53:57 AM »

But...but...but...muh marijuana legalization
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« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2014, 11:59:58 AM »

But...but...but...muh marijuana legalization

if he did come straight out for full-fledged marijuana legalization at the federal level, or at least the complete removal of marijuana from the Controlled Substances Act, he might be able to tap into something among the 18-29 demographic.  I doubt he will though
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2014, 02:07:49 PM »

But...but...but...muh marijuana legalization

if he did come straight out for full-fledged marijuana legalization at the federal level, or at least the complete removal of marijuana from the Controlled Substances Act, he might be able to tap into something among the 18-29 demographic.  I doubt he will though

Not really, hardly anyone is a single issue pro-pot voter.
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King
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« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2014, 02:27:17 PM »

DeadPrez has the ShadowStats to prove Rand Paul is really up 20 points in unskewed polls because 98% of Americans are unemployed and the price of milk is really $5,000 a gallon. You uninformed voters don't know.
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