Peace and Prosperity Act of 2014 (Voting on Amendment)

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

... I'm flabbergasted this thing has a chance at passing.

[Deus Naturae]

... I'm flabbergasted this thing has a chance at passing.

Why?

[PPT Spiral]

I object. I like those provisions.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

... I'm flabbergasted this thing has a chance at passing.

Why?

You're right... I shouldn't be.

[TNF]

An objection has been filed by Senator Spiral to the proposed amendment. Senators, a vote is now open on the above amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

[TNF]

AYE


While I like the original content (obviously, since I wrote it into the bill), I think this has a much better chance of passing without it, given the opposition it has seemed to elicit among some members of the Senate. With that section removed, I'm not entirely sure what is necessarily wrong with this bill to those who oppose it, other than opposition from those who believe that Atlasia needs a large military or multiple military bureaucracies doing the exact same thing under different banners, and thus wasting a lot of taxpayer dollars as a result.

I am of course ideologically committed to shrinking the offensive capabilities of the Republic of Atlasia because I believe that, with smaller offensive capabilities and a much larger role for citizen-soldiers (in the form of the National Guard), elected officials will be far less likely to engage in imperial actions abroad.

[Cranberry]

Aye

As I said, I don't know much about the issues in now clause 4, but asides from that I'm okay with it.

[Cassius]

Nay

[Lumine]

I'll vote Aye in this amendment since I feel it's important to eliminate the clauses, but I should point out that I believe Clause   is the main point of opposition (at least to me). I believe there has been a tendence to weaken the military in previous bills, and while I understand the need for reform and reducing expenses that may be wasteful, I fail to see how this could actually improve the situation beyond forcing the armed forces to a sudden and slightly chaotic change.

"Imperial actions" is, I believe, one of those terms that are only used to oversimplify things, because I believe Atlasia has a role to play which is actually related to the spirit of Clause 3, to prevent genocide or attacks against determined groups and collaborating with the affected governments (like the Iraqi government to help the Kurds against ISIS, or the Ukrainian government to defend against Russian aggressions and also help the Tatars of Crimea), a role that cannot be played in a proper way if we weaken our military and reduce our bases across the world. As the SoEA and others have pointed out, that would be wrong road for us.

[bore]

Aye

And I must say I'm baffled that Cassius has revealed himself as more dovish than tnf.

[Dr. Cynic]

Aye

I can't support the bill without the amendments offered.

[Cassius]

Aye

And I must say I'm baffled that Cassius has revealed himself as more dovish than tnf.

Oh no, I'm trying to prevent this bill (which contains virtually nothing that I agree with) being made more palatable to the Senate as a whole (as evidenced by Cynic's comment).

[bore]

Aye

And I must say I'm baffled that Cassius has revealed himself as more dovish than tnf.

Oh no, I'm trying to prevent this bill (which contains virtually nothing that I agree with) being made more palatable to the Senate as a whole (as evidenced by Cynic's comment).

I look forward to you voting for TUSC in 2015 in order to discredit the left.

[DemPGH]

While I would actually like to at least reduce overseas bases maybe without outright shuttering all of them, I am pleased with the amended version and hope that it strikes a good compromise. Glad to see 5C struck. We can certainly add pilotless aircraft, but eliminating pilots really isn't realistic. In all, looks good.

[Dr. Cynic]

Aye

And I must say I'm baffled that Cassius has revealed himself as more dovish than tnf.

Oh no, I'm trying to prevent this bill (which contains virtually nothing that I agree with) being made more palatable to the Senate as a whole (as evidenced by Cynic's comment).

Seems a bit odd to attempt, no? When clearly the modified bill satisfies just about everybody else. Seems a curious move to me.

[bore]

Proposing an amendment:

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[PPT Spiral]

Nay

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye


Though I would like to minimize the use of human pilots, they might still be necessary and we shouldn't completely tie our hands in that regard. Perhaps a language of preference between the two or priority.

[Goldwater]

AYE

[TNF]

The amendment has enough votes to pass. Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.

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Amendment is friendly. Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Cranberry]

Those are thoughtful and good changes I can only support

[TNF]

The amendment has been adopted.

[Cassius]

I'm surprised that nobody has raised any qualms about Section 2 yet; attempting to 'democratise' the United Nations is a fools errand, and one that will do great damage to our ability to advance a strong foreign policy that is in Atlasia's interests.

[Cranberry]

I'm surprised that nobody has raised any qualms about Section 2 yet; attempting to 'democratise' the United Nations is a fools errand, and one that will do great damage to our ability to advance a strong foreign policy that is in Atlasia's interests.

Assuming this would ever happen, since we have four other veto powers...

[bore]

Yeah, I don't think this bill is proposing unilateral disarmament, so to speak.