Peace and Prosperity Act of 2014 (Voting on Amendment)

[TNF]

What's the vote count on this at present, Mr. PPT?

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

What are your concerns in particularly Senator Polnut?

I am deeply concerned that the arbitrary reductions in military numbers might make it difficult to respond to future crises. I know many want us to never have to fight in any conflicts anywhere... but that's not how the world works.

I have no issue with encouraging our military to work smarter and reduce their numbers. It's something I've done for a long time. But I do have concerns that this Bill weakens us, purely out of an ideal about what we 'should' be doing, as opposed to what we might have to do.

[TNF]

We don't "have" to do anything that we don't want to do. It is not the responsibility of the Republic of Atlasia to intervene military in any conflict that does not directly involve an attack upon it. We must discard this "white man's burden" nonsense once and for all.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

We don't "have" to do anything that we don't want to do. It is not the responsibility of the Republic of Atlasia to intervene military in any conflict that does not directly involve an attack upon it. We must discard this "white man's burden" nonsense once and for all.

I understand this is your view. I disagree that this is the only scenario is which we may have to respond. Plus, even in your very limited view... are the numbers suitable to manage an attack upon us?

[TNF]

In the event of an attack upon Atlasian soil, I have no doubts that we would be able to adjust those numbers temporarily to deal with whatever it is we are dealing with. Recruitment would likely not be an issue, and if it were, I don't think we would have trouble getting the necessary 3/4th vote in the Senate to implement conscription. I don't really think we should have a standing army, frankly, so even these numbers are a bit of a compromise on my part.

[Lumine]

The Peace and Prosperity Act has passed the Senate, and is now sent to the President for executive action.

Aye (5) Senator TNF, Senator Bore, Senator Deus, Senator Cranberry, Senator Cynic.
Nay (4) Senator Cassius, Senator JCL, PPT Lumine and Senator Yankee.
Abstained (1) Senator Polnut.

Not Voting (0)

Final Text: (for reference)

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[DemPGH]

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X DemPGH, President

I feel that this is achievable and reasonable, with quite a long time to see the bulk of it come to fruition.

Maintaining a policy of interventionism is to me exceedingly harmful; it puts a chronic strain on budgetary matters whereas we could use the money to improve education, access to education, and scientific development. Interventionism is largely wasteful, except in dire circumstances.

I also don't feel that Atlasia should shoulder the responsibility of policing the world. I always and forever ask the question, "Why us?" The answer I get? "Because we can." Well ladies and gentlemen, that is simply not good enough. Because we can do something does not mean that we should. Now, Atlasia has an excellent social safety net. If we do reduce numbers in the military, I believe that there will be plenty of other opportunities, educational and otherwise, for former soldiers.

I would also like to point out that standing armies did not used to exist, and for quite a long time in human history, standing armies did not exist outside of very small forces. Armies were always raised. My only point is that I don't doubt that if we had to increase or adjust any of the numbers herein, we could do that expeditiously.

[TNF]

Thank you for signing this, Mr. President. The cause of peace is well served by your quick action on this bill.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Section four is unreasonable Mr. President. Just on that alone this should be vetoed please reconsider your signiture of the act.

[Gass3268]

Section four is unreasonable Mr. President. Just on that alone this should be vetoed please reconsider your signiture of the act.

He can't unsign the bill. Things don't work that way.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Peace has rarely been achieved by engaging in such a massive restructuring of the military with the unintended consequence of debilitating its effectiveness. There are people in the world who take advantage of power vacuums and whilst we have made mistakes that have hurts us in history, hobbling ourselves will neither undo those mistakes any more then it will dissuade rogue states.

[Deus Naturae]

Peace has rarely been achieved by engaging in such a massive restructuring of the military with the unintended consequence of debilitating its effectiveness. There are people in the world who take advantage of power vacuums and whilst we have made mistakes that have hurts us in history, hobbling ourselves will neither undo those mistakes any more then it will dissuade rogue states.

Why do you believe this restructuring will hobble us? What power vacuums are you talking about? All of our current bases are still in place.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Peace has rarely been achieved by engaging in such a massive restructuring of the military with the unintended consequence of debilitating its effectiveness. There are people in the world who take advantage of power vacuums and whilst we have made mistakes that have hurts us in history, hobbling ourselves will neither undo those mistakes any more then it will dissuade rogue states.

Why do you believe this restructuring will hobble us? What power vacuums are you talking about? All of our current bases are still in place.

The restucutring is conducted two quickly and without much concern for capability.

Whenever you pull out or are perceived as pulling out, that is a power vacuum. That doesn't mean you should never draw down or pull out, it just means you have to consider all the factors when doing so.

[Deus Naturae]

Peace has rarely been achieved by engaging in such a massive restructuring of the military with the unintended consequence of debilitating its effectiveness. There are people in the world who take advantage of power vacuums and whilst we have made mistakes that have hurts us in history, hobbling ourselves will neither undo those mistakes any more then it will dissuade rogue states.

Why do you believe this restructuring will hobble us? What power vacuums are you talking about? All of our current bases are still in place.

The restucutring is conducted two quickly and without much concern for capability.

Whenever you pull out or are perceived as pulling out, that is a power vacuum. That doesn't mean you should never draw down or pull out, it just means you have to consider all the factors when doing so.

We aren't pulling out of anywhere. The bill just collapses some branches of the armed forces into others and reduces overall troop numbers over a five-year period. Since you are the one urging careful consideration, what are some specific concerns (ie, actual situations where this bill would hamper our capability [what ever that means]) you think should have been considered?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Peace has rarely been achieved by engaging in such a massive restructuring of the military with the unintended consequence of debilitating its effectiveness. There are people in the world who take advantage of power vacuums and whilst we have made mistakes that have hurts us in history, hobbling ourselves will neither undo those mistakes any more then it will dissuade rogue states.

Why do you believe this restructuring will hobble us? What power vacuums are you talking about? All of our current bases are still in place.

The restucutring is conducted two quickly and without much concern for capability.

Whenever you pull out or are perceived as pulling out, that is a power vacuum. That doesn't mean you should never draw down or pull out, it just means you have to consider all the factors when doing so.

We aren't pulling out of anywhere. The bill just collapses some branches of the armed forces into others and reduces overall troop numbers over a five-year period. Since you are the one urging careful consideration, what are some specific concerns (ie, actual situations where this bill would hamper our capability [what ever that means]) you think should have been considered?

I meant to say weakness. If you remove a capability, that creates a weakness whether real or perceived. You need to have the necessary capabilities and ensure they are preserved throughout this transition in case we are attacked. I am worried about the preservation of various capabilities as the branches are consolidated and also the chain of command. You cannot just stick them together without creating confusion in the chain of command and that reduces the effectiveness of the unit. What are the stages of the transition? What in this will serve to mitigate or ease with the transition and what will minimize those loses to the transition?