What do YOU think should happen to the Eurozone?

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

This poll is not what you think will happen, but what you think would be the best solution to the Eurozone crisis.



I personally believe that the single-currency zone was a mistake, as the very different economies of all the nations are impossible to manage with a single central monetary policy, and thus the Euro should be abolished. The EU as a customs union with cultural management and economic coordination should remain as is, however. (Option 5)

My Plan B would be the Eurozone nations need to give up more economic power and integrate further, which would be risky as the economies are still very different. (Option 2)

I'm not the expert on European economics, so I'm interested in your opinions.

[TNF]

The European Union should be transformed into a united states of Europe with an elected parliament that has the power to make binding law for all component members and the ability to develop and make policy on a continent-wide level. The only solution to this crisis is political integration; economic integration without political integration will only serve to further the interests of finance capital at the expense of the European working class. Political integration itself probably wouldn't offer a clear way out, but it would break down some barriers between coordinated working class action in Europe and help speed up the destruction of respective nationalisms.

[Cassius]

Ideally, the Eurozone should be eliminated. It was, after all, a fairly stupid idea to begin with. However, eliminating it would be problematic in the short-term, since Greece going back to the Drachma, Portugal going back to the Escudo and Germany going back to the Deutschmark (etc) is going to create a lot of havoc, even if, in the long-term, it may be more healthy (as you said, returning control over monetary and indeed fiscal policy to individual countries) for each country (except Germany). Alternatively, the idea of splitting the Eurozone up into different currency zones (a rough example is the north/south axiom that gets bandied about a lot) might be a more practical solution, although even then that will still have the drawback of different countries being bound together under (theoretically) one monetary policy.

Now, the idea of 'integration' and 'convergence' all sounds very nice and sensible in theory, in practice, I have doubts as to whether it can be achieved. For one thing, as has been shown by the Eurozone crisis, the idea of handing over more power to Brussels is very unpopular (at least due to its practical effects, rather than the philosophical aspects of it). The rise of eurosceptic parties (UKIP, M5S, the FN) and the eurosceptic shifts in some previously pro-European parties (the UMP et al), has been due, to a very large extent, be traced to the behaviour of the EU, the ECB etc during the economic crisis. It is clear that the EU is not popular, and the task of convincing wary electorates that more power should be handed to Brussels is not one that many governments (at least, those whose backs aren't against the wall) are going to be keen to take on.

Further more, the idea of convergence; in otherwords, the economies of the EU member states being driven together so that they are more suited to being yoked under one monetary policy, is going to be very difficult to bring about. I mean, there are plenty of member states that have failed to achieve 'convergence' within their own countries (Southern England vs parts of Northern England, East vs West Germany). Doing this on a grand scale seems to me like an impossible task.

To my way of thinking, an attempted climbdown from the Euro seems like the best solution, which is not to say that it is by any means a perfect solution, given that it will cause an awful lot of short term problems. Nonetheless, I'm not an economist, and I'm sure that other posters can give you far better analysis than I can.

[Cory]

The European Union should be transformed into a united states of Europe with an elected parliament that has the power to make binding law for all component members and the ability to develop and make policy on a continent-wide level. The only solution to this crisis is political integration; economic integration without political integration will only serve to further the interests of finance capital at the expense of the European working class. Political integration itself probably wouldn't offer a clear way out, but it would break down some barriers between coordinated working class action in Europe and help speed up the destruction of respective nationalisms.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Wow, I actually agree with TNF and Cory on something.

[Deus Naturae]

Break it up and get rid of the Euro. When you have one central bank (the ECB) financing the deficits of multiple countries, things inevitably degenerate into an endless cycle of money printing, deficit spending, and massive bailouts.

National governments can use the ECB printing press to finance their budget deficits (since the ECB lends money created out of thin air to creditors who buy government bonds), but the inflation gets spread out throughout the Eurozone, so everyone experiences the side effects whether they deficit spend or not. This results in a tragedy of the commons situation where every country has an incentive to spend as much as possible because the inflation is going to happen anyway (essentially, "If I don't spend/inflate, someone else will"). Then, when this ECB-financed deficit spending gets out of control, you have massive international bailouts, not to mention the inflation that's occurred over time from the money printed by the ECB to lend out to creditors. It's just a huge scam that impoverishes millions while enriching a select few: The creditors who deal the ECB funny money and the central bankers who facilitate it.

[H. Ross Peron]

I agree with TNF, Cory, and Antonio V. The Eurozone's not going away. They had their trial by fire in 2010-2012, and they came out alive, so they're much stronger than before. The only way it could break up now is if ultra-nationalists truly came to power across Europe, but that is still only a remote possibility, with few notable exceptions (e.g., France). The real question now is, the rest of the E.U.'s institutions. How will they maintain their legitimacy without accountability? What is going to happen to democracy?

[AkSaber]

I personally believe that the single-currency zone was a mistake, as the very different economies of all the nations are impossible to manage with a single central monetary policy, and thus the Euro should be abolished. The EU as a customs union with cultural management and economic coordination should remain as is, however. (Option 5)

^^^^^^^^^

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Agree with TNF, as long as the resultant Union isn't called "The United States of Europe". Because that's really ugh.

The Eurozone needs more integration, but democratic integration; not just the German elite calling all the shots.

[Deus Naturae]

Also, why maintain the EU as a customs union? I'd say the rest of the world is more important in terms of trade than just Europe, so current EU member-states would probably be better off making trade agreements with other parts of the world, even if it meant having to temporarily renegotiate some trade agreements with other European countries.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It is now abundantly clear that a 'United States of Europe' (whatever the name) would be an absolute fycking disaster. Lefties that think it would lead to better policies and better politics are living in the usual cloud cuckoo land: the last thing we should be encouraging is for ordinary people to see their economic interests in terms of nation.

As for the Eurozone, I have no idea.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The Eurozone hasn't failed? Oh please, give it time.

The events of the past few years have confirmed that a U.S.E would be unworkable. Who, after all, gets to decide policy in this arrangement?

It is now abundantly clear that a 'United States of Europe' (whatever the name) would be an absolute fycking disaster. Lefties that think it would lead to better policies and better politics are living in the usual cloud cuckoo land: the last thing we should be encouraging is for ordinary people to see their economic interests in terms of nation.

Part of the problem is they already do. That will only increase should further EU integration happen of course.

[Person Man]

On one hand they need some sort of integration to compete globally against the US and China in terms of security and trade, on the other hand, they are a wide range of economies, peoples and languages with a different set of fiscal and cultural goals.

It would be great if we could have stronger and more reliable allies in the world so that we can repair our aging infrastructure, insolvent higher education system and provide tax relief but this would put too much in the action or inaction of others.

At this point, the entire "Eurozone" thing is at a crossroads like we were in Iraq a few years ago. The Eurostates need to just keep dumping Chlorine into a green swimming pool or they need to climb down over the next 20-30 years until they are more or less a free trade zone where you don't need a passport to cross the borders.

[Deus Naturae]

On one hand they need some sort of integration to compete globally against the US and China in terms of security and trade, on the other hand, they are a wide range of economies, peoples and languages with a different set of fiscal and cultural goals.

Why do they need to be in a customs union to compete in terms of trade? It would probably be easier for European countries to make trade deals with the rest of the world if they could all do so independently instead of all having to do so through a single common trade policy.

What do you mean in terms of security? Does the EU have any substantial common military forces?

[Hamster]

Quarantined

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Part of the problem is they already do. That will only increase should further EU integration happen of course.

Exactly. At least it is not currently dominant in most countries. Whereas in a hypothetical U.S.E...

[Person Man]

On one hand they need some sort of integration to compete globally against the US and China in terms of security and trade, on the other hand, they are a wide range of economies, peoples and languages with a different set of fiscal and cultural goals.

Why do they need to be in a customs union to compete in terms of trade? It would probably be easier for European countries to make trade deals with the rest of the world if they could all do so independently instead of all having to do so through a single common trade policy.

What do you mean in terms of security? Does the EU have any substantial common military forces?

Would it help if they did?

So, what you are saying is that if there were no common currency, Britain could trade through Spain and through there trade with Kazakhstan that has lower duties on Spanish goods than British goods?  That's a good point but it seems more complicated than a more concentrated approach.

[courts]

It is now abundantly clear that a 'United States of Europe' (whatever the name) would be an absolute fycking disaster. Lefties that think it would lead to better policies and better politics are living in the usual cloud cuckoo land: the last thing we should be encouraging is for ordinary people to see their economic interests in terms of nation.

^
tbf it was also one of those ideas that a lot of the old fascists had a long time too

[Deus Naturae]

Would it help if they did?

No (assuming you're referring to an EU military force), but you mentioned security so I was wondering what you were referring to.

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My understanding is that currently, EU member-states cannot make trade agreements with other nations and must adhere to the common EU trade policy. So, I'm saying that it would be easier to make trade deals with non-European countries if they could act independently instead of having to rely on the EU to negotiate common trade deals with outside nations.

[AggregateDemand]

UK should drop out, and use economic relations with its former colonies to counterbalance German hegemony.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

UK should drop out, and use economic relations with its former colonies to counterbalance German hegemony.

The UK is not in the Eurozone.

[ingemann]

Also, why maintain the EU as a customs union? I'd say the rest of the world is more important in terms of trade than just Europe, so current EU member-states would probably be better off making trade agreements with other parts of the world, even if it meant having to temporarily renegotiate some trade agreements with other European countries.

Wow in a thread not really full of intelligent comment, this really beat most. Try for a moment to look up the different European countries biggest trading partners. Most trade in Europe are internal, mostly with their neighbours.

Let's take Germany as example, one of the countries which export most out of EU, of their 20 biggest export destination 13 are other EU countries, while one are part of EFTA and one seek to join EU.
As for German import 15 are members of EU, one are part of EFTA  and one seek to join EU.

The most telling part are that beside Luxembourg all Germany's neighbours are on the list of the 20 biggest export and import partners.

This is basic international economy 101 developed countries trade most with their (developed) neighbours, and as all EU countries are developed most European trade is between neigbouring countries.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Eliminate the Euro and dissolve the European Union.

[AggregateDemand]

UK should drop out, and use economic relations with its former colonies to counterbalance German hegemony.

The UK is not in the Eurozone.

UK should drop out of the EU to counterbalance German hegemony within the Eurozone.

[ingemann]

UK should drop out, and use economic relations with its former colonies to counterbalance German hegemony.

The UK is not in the Eurozone.

UK should drop out of the EU to counterbalance German hegemony within the Eurozone.

What?!? I can't even follow the thought process behind this one, that's like suggesting that Texas should secede from USA to counterbalance the Californian position in the electoral college.