The Demonstrations Act of 2014 (Tabled)
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  The Demonstrations Act of 2014 (Tabled)
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Author Topic: The Demonstrations Act of 2014 (Tabled)  (Read 1500 times)
TNF
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« on: August 25, 2014, 02:42:09 PM »
« edited: August 29, 2014, 09:58:29 PM by PPT TNF »

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Sponsor: Senator Cassius

You have 24 hours to make your case.
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Cassius
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 03:01:35 PM »

I do not expect for this act to be passed without any modifications; indeed, I welcome proposals to better this bill and hope that it can be fine-tuned. However, my basic motivation for introducing this bill was that, as we have seen over recent weeks, demonstrations and protests have the capacity to get... out of hand, shall I say. Now, not only is this bad for the community as a whole (think of the disruption that large and impromptu demonstrations can cause), but it some caes, the demonstrators themselves, as it can lead to a ruckus with the police.

My view is that the introduction of a nationwide permit system would act to reduce the size of demonstrations (due to the fact that many people will, most likely, not go to the trouble of getting a permit) which will make them easier for local law-enforcement to control. Secondly, a nationwide permit system will allow local authorities to bar known troublemakers (those with a history of violent offences for example) from attending demonstrations, and thus reduce the likelihood of demonstrations being pushed into violence by the actions of a small minority. I hope this measure would help strengthen public security.

I am open to amendments and additions to this bill. But, as a starting point at least.
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 03:15:07 PM »

I'll be honest with you. I see this bill actually creating more unrest than solving it. Not only do I disagree with the premise of forcing protesters to always apply for permits and entirely killing organic protest (though that is of lesser concern). In fact, I can see even deeper conflicts arising when police attempt to forcibly break up a protest that hadn't had a permit and had been otherwise peaceful.

My biggest concern is that this bill could actually inflame the problem. I'd like to hear what Senator Cassius has to say in regards to that, but that is right now my biggest worry.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 03:37:18 PM »

I will not in any way support the current text.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 04:49:32 PM »

I too have concerns about trying to entirely regulate this and then try to enforce such subsequently.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 05:17:52 PM »

The federal government is not the best place for a bill like this. Maybe the regions but I'm not keen on hindering organic free speech.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2014, 05:39:31 PM »

In all fairness, we probably would have accused TNF of partisan maneuvering if he had barred it from the floor, and we know he has an aversion to seeming too in bed with any one party.

... Tongue

FWIW, I also think this bill kind of opens a can of worms. The requirement for a permit implies that permits can be denied, and I don't think that's a good idea.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2014, 06:18:40 PM »

This would likely be unconstitutional if passed. FYI although I know my opinion isn't was welcome anymore
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Lumine
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2014, 12:17:40 AM »

While I certainly understand the motives behind Cassius's proposal, this would most likely be unconstitutional and given the Atlasian context quite hard to enforce.

To give an external perspective, the Constitution set by the military government in my country during the 80's does protect the right to protest in a peaceful way, but an Executive Order was approved in 1983 which required all major protests or public mobilizations to request an authorization from the local Governor in order to make the protest legal. During the past years and thanks to the student protests across Chile we've had an endless debate about the nature of these protests, the legality of the Executive Order that regulates them (and some agree it is unconstitutional, which doesn't stop others from defending its use and so forth) and the thin line between a "pacific" and a "violent" protest (which is very open to interpretation), a debate that would probably be a thousand times worse here given the much higher emphasis on civil liberties that Atlasia has, hence why I think this would be unpractical as well.
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Cassius
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2014, 02:01:22 AM »

Well, thank you for all of your feedback. I would like to withdraw this bill from consideration by the Senate, as you seem united in opposition to it, and because it would have a fair chance of being declared unconstitutional even if it were passed.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2014, 02:20:41 AM »

Well, thank you for all of your feedback. I would like to withdraw this bill from consideration by the Senate, as you seem united in opposition to it, and because it would have a fair chance of being declared unconstitutional even if it were passed.

Yes, look friend, I admire and understand your position, but I am not sure how we can make it legal considering the freedom of assembly we enjoy with constitutional protections. I get where you are coming from, I do, because some "demonstrations" can get out of hand, but if we pass such a bill, it will certainly be up to a court challenge at the very least.
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bore
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2014, 08:21:05 AM »

The gun nut argument that if they are made illegal only bad guys will have guns is mostly a bad argument, but it does have a ring of truth about it. Namely, certain laws only affect those who don't need to be affected, and I think this would have been true of this bill as well.
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TNF
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2014, 09:05:37 AM »

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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2014, 04:11:52 PM »

I oppose both Sen. Cassius's bill and PPT TNF's amendment. People should have the right to spew horrid hate speech, and if we set the precedent of banning speech we don't like it could have major consequences down the road.
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PPT Spiral
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2014, 04:30:24 PM »

I thought we were past the point of debating the rights of free speech and assembly. No way I can support this.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2014, 04:32:58 PM »

Who gets to determine what falls into one of those categories? Yea, I agree with Spiral and Alfred
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2014, 08:26:59 PM »

I feel the same way. This bill is DOA.
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bore
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« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2014, 05:20:12 AM »

Motion to table
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Cranberry
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« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2014, 09:19:29 AM »

I wouldn't support this, just FTR.

I second Senator Bore's motion to table.
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TNF
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« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2014, 02:50:14 PM »

Given that I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that Cassius would deem my amendment unfriendly, I'm going to postpone that vote until we finish the vote on whether or not to table this bill.

Senators, a motion to table this bill has been filed. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
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TNF
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« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2014, 02:52:19 PM »

Aye
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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2014, 03:15:14 PM »

Aye
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Cranberry
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2014, 04:02:33 PM »

Aye
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Cassius
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2014, 04:18:44 PM »

Aye
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PPT Spiral
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2014, 04:27:13 PM »

Aye
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