Opinion of Irish abortion laws

[TDAS04]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Life_During_Pregnancy_Act_2013

Irish law allows abortion if the mother's life is deemed to be in danger, but not for rape or any other reason.

[H. Ross Peron]

Generally positive although the laws needs to improve its process for allowing abortions for ectopic pregnancies and the like to go through.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Here we've mostly learnt that the term 'danger' is a very ambiguous one.

Obviously they're awful, but awful in kinda interesting way. The pro-life movement unintentionally helped to slightly liberalize our laws on this recently, to much lulz all round.

[TNF]

Horrifying. Women should be able to choose a safe and legal abortion, free of charge and on demand, for any reason and without any questions asked or artificial hoops constructed for her to jump through in order to exercise that right (i.e. waiting periods or mandatory viewing of a sonogram, etc.)

[ElectionsGuy]

Negative, too restrictive.

Horrifying. Women should be able to choose a safe and legal abortion, free of charge and on demand, for any reason and without any questions asked or artificial hoops constructed for her to jump through in order to exercise that right (i.e. waiting periods or mandatory viewing of a sonogram, etc.)

Ha, I would love to see you and TJ debate on abortion.

[Miles]

Generally positive although the laws needs to improve its process for allowing abortions for ectopic pregnancies and the like to go through.

[Oakvale]

You guys realise literally no-one thinks Irish abortion laws are "generally positive"? Even the pro-life lunatics dislike them.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Obviously crap.

[TDAS04]

Obviously terrible laws.

Here we've mostly learnt that the term 'danger' is a very ambiguous one.

Abortion restrictions inevitably endanger the mother, even when the exception for her life supposedly exists.  I'm not sure who decides or how they decide whether or not the mother's life is threatened.  When women need an urgent, lifesaving procedure, abortion restrictions result in them being burdened by having "prove" that their lives are at risk.  Doctors may still be afraid to treat them because they're afraid of the law. 

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Obviously terrible laws.

Here we've mostly learnt that the term 'danger' is a very ambiguous one.

Abortion restrictions inevitably endanger the mother, even when the exception for her life supposedly exists.  I'm not sure who decides or how they decide whether or not the mother's life is threatened.  When women need an urgent, lifesaving procedure, abortion restrictions result in them being burdened by having "prove" that their lives are at risk.  Doctors may still be afraid to treat them because they're afraid of the law. 

Exactly.

And the particular amendment in the constitution states that both the unborn fetus and the mother must be treated 'equally'. We live with the consequences.

[Mechaman]

They make me sad, to say the least.  You would think that one of the first nations to have women actively involved in their government would show them a little more respect in regards to their own bodies.

You would think wrong.

[RI]

The suicide exception is odd, to say the least.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Clearly has a lot of problems, but far superior to the situation in much of the world.  There's not an easy way to come up with good law on this issue that deals with all the interests and concerns involved.  The times when the health of women are threatened by the law are concerning and important but rare, with Ireland having one of the lowest maternal mortality rates in the world.

[SWE]

Clearly horrific

[DC Al Fine]

You guys realise literally no-one thinks Irish abortion laws are "generally positive"? Even the pro-life lunatics dislike them.

My view is that they're a heck of a lot better than the laws in my barbarous nation. They may not be ideal, but they're a Western laws that significantly restrict abortion, and for that I am glad.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

You guys realise literally no-one thinks Irish abortion laws are "generally positive"? Even the pro-life lunatics dislike them.

My view is that they're a heck of a lot better than the laws in my barbarous nation. They may not be ideal, but they're a Western laws that significantly restrict abortion, and for that I am glad.

Well, that is the first and probably only time I will see "barbarous" used in reference to Canada. 

And of course these laws are disgusting.  TNF has it right.  See his post above. 

[TJ in Oregon]

A little milquetoast but better than ours.

[H. Ross Peron]

You guys realise literally no-one thinks Irish abortion laws are "generally positive"? Even the pro-life lunatics dislike them.

My view is that they're a heck of a lot better than the laws in my barbarous nation. They may not be ideal, but they're a Western laws that significantly restrict abortion, and for that I am glad.

Well, that is the first and probably only time I will see "barbarous" used in reference to Canada. 

What about with regards to hockey?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Horrifying. Women should be able to choose a safe and legal abortion, free of charge and on demand, for any reason and without any questions asked or artificial hoops constructed for her to jump through in order to exercise that right (i.e. waiting periods or mandatory viewing of a sonogram, etc.)

This.

[Simfan34]

You guys realise literally no-one thinks Irish abortion laws are "generally positive"? Even the pro-life lunatics dislike them.

My view is that they're a heck of a lot better than the laws in my barbarous nation. They may not be ideal, but they're a Western laws that significantly restrict abortion, and for that I am glad.

What would you prefer? I quite like them as is.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

You guys realise literally no-one thinks Irish abortion laws are "generally positive"? Even the pro-life lunatics dislike them.

My view is that they're a heck of a lot better than the laws in my barbarous nation. They may not be ideal, but they're a Western laws that significantly restrict abortion, and for that I am glad.

Well, that is the first and probably only time I will see "barbarous" used in reference to Canada. 

What about with regards to hockey?

Getting one's aggression out through a sport as fun and challenging as hockey is hardly barbarous!

[H. Ross Peron]

Horrifying. Women should be able to choose a safe and legal abortion, free of charge and on demand, for any reason and without any questions asked or artificial hoops constructed for her to jump through in order to exercise that right (i.e. waiting periods or mandatory viewing of a sonogram, etc.)

This.

Do you agree with TNF on legalized abortion on demand up to birth, Antonio?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Horrifying. Women should be able to choose a safe and legal abortion, free of charge and on demand, for any reason and without any questions asked or artificial hoops constructed for her to jump through in order to exercise that right (i.e. waiting periods or mandatory viewing of a sonogram, etc.)

This.

Do you agree with TNF on legalized abortion on demand up to birth, Antonio?

No, I support reasonable time limits based on viability (which I think would translate in 25-30 weeks, though I'm not very versed in the details). I'm thankful TNF left that bit out of his post.

[Person Man]

Negative, too restrictive.

Horrifying. Women should be able to choose a safe and legal abortion, free of charge and on demand, for any reason and without any questions asked or artificial hoops constructed for her to jump through in order to exercise that right (i.e. waiting periods or mandatory viewing of a sonogram, etc.)

Ha, I would love to see you and TJ debate on abortion.

Not really. They would probably just moo at each other for 25 minutes. No land wars in Asia. No "debates" about abortion.

Obviously terrible laws.

Here we've mostly learnt that the term 'danger' is a very ambiguous one.

Abortion restrictions inevitably endanger the mother, even when the exception for her life supposedly exists.  I'm not sure who decides or how they decide whether or not the mother's life is threatened.  When women need an urgent, lifesaving procedure, abortion restrictions result in them being burdened by having "prove" that their lives are at risk.  Doctors may still be afraid to treat them because they're afraid of the law.  

It will be interesting to see how someone gets a legal abortion through a rape exception. Obviously, you don't wait until you have an adjudication of guilt of the perp.

Further, who provides exception to personhood laws/abortion bans? Only 5-10% of abortions in this country can be considered forensic (rape, incest?(I find this exception from moderate pro-personhooders to be odd), pregnancy caused by a felony?) or critically therapeutic (threat to mother's life). No abortion clinic will stay open just to perform maybe a few dozen abortions a year (There are 500 abortionists and 1,000,000 abortions in the US..and after such a law, there would be like 100,000?).  Maybe what separates personhoods from those that are moderate antiabortionists is that they don't support exceptions for forensic abortion. Critically therapeutic abortions are probably 2%-3% of all abortions...and that's pushing it. Who will perform them? Who performs them in Ireland?




I'm against personhood.

In total, these are bad laws. Because this is basically a personhood law, how does this constitutional amendment change birth control access and stem cell transplants?

Who determines if the criteria for an exception is satisfied and how does one redeem their sanctioned abortion? I'm guessing its all done at the hospital and there is an emergency hearing in front of a judge or that the local prosecutorial officer signs an affidavit to not prosecute once he talks to the doctors at the hospital?

[Oakvale]

Strange.