Opinion of coal mining
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Question: Opinion of coal mining
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Author Topic: Opinion of coal mining  (Read 2090 times)
nolesfan2011
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« on: August 25, 2014, 05:54:29 PM »

pretty straightforward, I say HA personally, it's awful for workers along with nature and the enviroment
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 06:22:52 PM »

HA that needs to be made obsolete as soon as possible.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 06:28:12 PM »

HA that needs to be made obsolete as soon as possible.
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Miles
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 08:21:17 PM »

FA; gets a really bum rap.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 09:34:55 PM »

It is indeed obsolete, but I see no reason why we should put the coal industry out of business when a good alternative has yet to be found. Until we rebuild our nuclear power system, I don't think we should abandon coal.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 10:20:03 PM »

FA until we find good replacements and until we can eventually wean ourselves off the activity.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2014, 10:33:49 PM »

Really, option 3 is most accurate, but I voted FA because I knew most people would vote HA.
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Mr. Illini
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2014, 11:05:10 PM »

Obviously bad. The problem is that getting rid of it would hurt a region that is already hurting, which complicates the issue. Something has to be done about it, however.
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2014, 04:22:02 AM »

It's pretty clear that thermal coal mines should be phased out pretty soon if not immediately. Most politicians near coal areas have been criminally cowardly about coal - passing the buck down and not allowing any sort of "gentle" transition that will alleviate pressure in workers.

Still, I will be glad when coal is finished for good - and it isn't needed at present, beyond political inertia (beyond the production of cement and steel, of course). Coal mining is a dangerous, dirty occupation, that isn't particularly great for long-term economies now that mountain top removal and surface mining remain in vogue.

In short I hate coal, it's the worst.
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dead0man
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2014, 04:22:39 AM »


Obviously we're going in the right direction as coal sucks for a lot of reasons (as does every single one of our energy options), but we also still really really need it, at least for a couple of more decades.  In the mean time we should acquire it and use it in the most reasonable and efficient and clean way possible.  I don't understand how something that provides us nearly 40% of our electricity can be a HA unless you also think electricity is a horrible thing...but that would be stupid.
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jfern
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2014, 04:38:25 AM »
« Edited: August 26, 2014, 04:43:50 AM by ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ »


Obviously we're going in the right direction as coal sucks for a lot of reasons (as does every single one of our energy options), but we also still really really need it, at least for a couple of more decades.  In the mean time we should acquire it and use it in the most reasonable and efficient and clean way possible.  I don't understand how something that provides us nearly 40% of our electricity can be a HA unless you also think electricity is a horrible thing...but that would be stupid.

LOL, coal is toast now that solar is often cheaper. And even if it's not, gas is cheaper and cleaner than coal.
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dead0man
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2014, 04:43:55 AM »

Not according to my Googlings....cite?
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dead0man
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2014, 04:47:42 AM »

Ok, it seems it CAN be cheaper in certain places and is getting better as competition heats up (yeah, go capitalism!).
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jfern
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2014, 05:01:47 AM »

Not according to my Googlings....cite?

solar 5 cents a kilowatt, 8 cents without subsidy
coal 10 cents
gas 7 cents
nuclear 13 cents
wind 2.8-3.8 cents

http://cleantechnica.com/2014/03/13/solar-sold-less-5%C2%A2kwh-austin-texas/
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dead0man
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2014, 06:30:53 AM »

Right, it CAN be cheaper in certain places (Austin), but that isn't true everywhere (and never will be in places that don't get a ton of sun).  Coal isn't toast just yet.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2014, 12:08:22 PM »

The industry that created the modern world, like it or not. No coal, no coke, no steam, no... well, you get the idea. By-products of the industry were also of critical importance to the development of chemistry and medicine. As an industry it was - and what's left of it is - horrible to work in, and over the centuries it has killed a staggeringly high proportion of its workforce (not through pit disasters, as horrific as they are, but through pneumoconiosis). Yet it also provided - and largely because miners generally fought for this - secure, skilled and relatively well paid employment for generations (almost nowhere is this still the case, of course). Miners were at the forefront of trade unionism and socialist politics in many countries, and mining communities had rich cultural lives. The changes to - and very frequently collapse of - the industry have led to social catastrophes. The correct opinion is a deeply conflicted one.

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Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2014, 12:33:58 PM »

I know there are a ton of coal miners around here, but it's honestly a horrible activity. Not only that, but my brother's middle school and many houses in the area are built on top of abandoned mines.

That middle school has had problems with sinkholes. There was a massive sinkhole in Monongahela not long ago just down the street from where my aunt lives. It's all from abandoned coal mines. There's more to the issue than just the environment. If you live in Western PA, especially outside of Pittsburgh, there is a big chance your house sits over an abandoned mine. There's a big chance you're gonna need home owners insurance because after my previous experiences, there's no way you should think you're safe. Hell, one just opened up in a parking lot in Ross Township a week or so ago and it swallowed a car that had the driver in it. Luckily for the individual, someone was quick thinking enough to pull her out. Where do you guys think that comes from? More abandoned coal mines.
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2014, 02:51:03 PM »

Sibboleth is completely right.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2014, 08:06:46 PM »

I know there are a ton of coal miners around here, but it's honestly a horrible activity. Not only that, but my brother's middle school and many houses in the area are built on top of abandoned mines.

That middle school has had problems with sinkholes. There was a massive sinkhole in Monongahela not long ago just down the street from where my aunt lives. It's all from abandoned coal mines. There's more to the issue than just the environment. If you live in Western PA, especially outside of Pittsburgh, there is a big chance your house sits over an abandoned mine. There's a big chance you're gonna need home owners insurance because after my previous experiences, there's no way you should think you're safe. Hell, one just opened up in a parking lot in Ross Township a week or so ago and it swallowed a car that had the driver in it. Luckily for the individual, someone was quick thinking enough to pull her out. Where do you guys think that comes from? More abandoned coal mines.

Heard of Centralia? I had to drive through there before. The backstory to it was pretty crazy.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2014, 10:48:54 PM »

Sibboleth makes some good points about coal's deep historical importance, and I don't want to knock that... but whaling was once pretty crucial to the economy and quality-of-life of "developed" nations, too.  And we know what happened there.  These days, knowing what we now know about the environmental and social devastation that coal leaves in its wake (both acute and chronic), and knowing what we know about how to produce clean(er) energy in so many other ways (gas, solar, wind, nukes, hydro, etc.)...

Well, I think it's high time that coal join the Pequod & co. in the history books.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2014, 01:30:36 AM »


Obviously we're going in the right direction as coal sucks for a lot of reasons (as does every single one of our energy options), but we also still really really need it, at least for a couple of more decades.  In the mean time we should acquire it and use it in the most reasonable and efficient and clean way possible.  I don't understand how something that provides us nearly 40% of our electricity can be a HA unless you also think electricity is a horrible thing...but that would be stupid.

Wow, I didn't know wood still had the sort of share that would actually show up on a chart like this. 

Also, where would garbage incinerators go?  Renewables (even though that would be kind of a misnomer)?  Or, hm, perhaps "wood" really means "biomass" and includes incinerators as well.  Not that it's a super-common way to get energy in the US, so doubt that would be the whole explanation even if true.
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Dixie Reborn
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2014, 02:23:46 PM »

Freedom Activity.
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Linus Van Pelt
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2014, 09:13:34 PM »


Obviously we're going in the right direction as coal sucks for a lot of reasons (as does every single one of our energy options), but we also still really really need it, at least for a couple of more decades.  In the mean time we should acquire it and use it in the most reasonable and efficient and clean way possible.  I don't understand how something that provides us nearly 40% of our electricity can be a HA unless you also think electricity is a horrible thing...but that would be stupid.

Wow, I didn't know wood still had the sort of share that would actually show up on a chart like this.  

Also, where would garbage incinerators go?  Renewables (even though that would be kind of a misnomer)?  Or, hm, perhaps "wood" really means "biomass" and includes incinerators as well.  Not that it's a super-common way to get energy in the US, so doubt that would be the whole explanation even if true.

If you look at the EIA's breakdown of "other renewables" (in various charts on its web site), it includes categories called "landfill gas", "biogenic municipal solid waste", and "other waste biomass".  I would guess that the systems you have in mind are somehow covered in these three. All are much smaller sources than wood and wood-derived fuels.

"Wood" here (nowadays - not for the historic parts of the above chart) mainly means wood waste from the forestry industry used for electricity generation. In areas with sawmills or pulp and paper mills, there are often nearby power plants that burn waste products like pellets or liquid byproducts of the paper-making process.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2014, 09:16:29 PM »

My roommates parents' house is heated by a wood furnace. They live in the middle of the mountains with no access to gas lines and his mom is afraid of having a propane tank. So they heat their home by wood from the trees on their land.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2014, 11:13:16 PM »


Obviously we're going in the right direction as coal sucks for a lot of reasons (as does every single one of our energy options), but we also still really really need it, at least for a couple of more decades.  In the mean time we should acquire it and use it in the most reasonable and efficient and clean way possible.  I don't understand how something that provides us nearly 40% of our electricity can be a HA unless you also think electricity is a horrible thing...but that would be stupid.

Wow, I didn't know wood still had the sort of share that would actually show up on a chart like this.  

Also, where would garbage incinerators go?  Renewables (even though that would be kind of a misnomer)?  Or, hm, perhaps "wood" really means "biomass" and includes incinerators as well.  Not that it's a super-common way to get energy in the US, so doubt that would be the whole explanation even if true.

If you look at the EIA's breakdown of "other renewables" (in various charts on its web site), it includes categories called "landfill gas", "biogenic municipal solid waste", and "other waste biomass".  I would guess that the systems you have in mind are somehow covered in these three. All are much smaller sources than wood and wood-derived fuels.

"Wood" here (nowadays - not for the historic parts of the above chart) mainly means wood waste from the forestry industry used for electricity generation. In areas with sawmills or pulp and paper mills, there are often nearby power plants that burn waste products like pellets or liquid byproducts of the paper-making process.

Aha, thank you.  I sort of vaguely knew that byproducts of paper production were used in a number of other capacities- though I had vanilla flavoring in mind rather than power generation- but that's a surprisingly large percentage of the grid, even if it's not actually large.

Makes sense re: landfill gas and incineration.  I was wondering if landfill gas was actually part of "natural gas" (since it's basically the same molecule- methane- that we're either finding in shale or collecting from being burped out by anaerobic bacteria), but I guess it does make more sense, big-picture, to have it in renewables.
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