PM Series: Question 14
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  PM Series: Question 14
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Poll
Question: The minimum wage should be raised
#1
Agree
 
#2
Usually Agree
 
#3
Neutral
 
#4
Usually Disagree
 
#5
Disagree
 
#6
Critical Issue
 
#7
Not a Critical Issue
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 49

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Author Topic: PM Series: Question 14  (Read 1294 times)
RR1997
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« on: August 27, 2014, 10:27:39 PM »

The right to individual autonomy is important, even if it threatens collective security: Usually Agree

The government should penalize organizations that practice outsourcing: Agree (critical issue)

Giving faith-based charities the same government resources as secular organizations is a good idea: Disagree (not critical)

We should increase foreign aid to countries struggling with poverty: Agree (not critical)

We should increase funding for education: Agree (critical issue)

Heterosexual couples should receive higher marital recognition than same-sex couples: Disagree (critical issue)

Overall, free trade hurts more than it helps: Disagree (critical issue)

We should reduce the number of government programs substantially: Disagree (critical issue)

Abortion should be illegal or very heavily restricted: Disagree (critical issue)

The government should fund museums, theaters, and other cultural institutions that are unable to survive independently: Agree (not critical)

The government should subsidize health insurance for those who cannot easily afford it: Agree (critical issue)

The government should work to reduce children's exposure to offensive radio and television content: Disagree (not critical)

It is unfair that wealthier people pay higher tax rates: Disagree (critical issue)

The minimum wage should be raised: ?


My opinion:
Usually Agree (not a crit. issue)
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SWE
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 10:28:18 PM »

Agree/critical
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 10:38:43 PM »

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20RP12
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 10:45:03 PM »

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Goldwater
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 10:53:05 PM »

Disagree, it should be abolished.
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ElectionsGuy
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 10:56:10 PM »

Disagree/non-critical. I have mixed feelings about the minimum wage, including that it should be abolished at the federal level, with states deciding their own minimum wage or whether to have one at all. But as long as it exists, it should be indexed to inflation (or deflation) on a yearly basis. Raising it massively would cost thousands of jobs and/or raise prices. And doing nothing would just let the wage have less value over time. 
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 11:00:33 PM »

Agree/Critical
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 11:04:41 PM »

Disagree/Critical. Set a price floor for any good/service, and you will price out goods/services with lower market value. Set a minimum hamburger price at $20, and no one will buy McDonald's burgers. They, along with other lower-quality burgers, will be priced out. Set a minimum price for an hour of labor at $7.25, and low-skilled workers who low marginal revenue productivity will be priced out.

Many people (especially low-income folks in urban areas) come out of the government "education" system after twelve years of forced attendance with very few marketable skills. Minimum wage laws (and other protectionist measures like occupational licensing) prevent them from entering the labor force. They can never learn any skills in the first place to increase the market value of their labor, and they end up trapped in perpetual unemployment (any attempt at self-employment will probably result in arrest for lack of sufficient licensing). It's an evil, vicious process that politicians perpetuate by preying on ignorance, in order to win votes and benefit special interests (namely skilled union workers who enjoy protection from cheaper, lower-skilled competition).
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 11:09:50 PM »

Usually disagree. Not a critical issue.

I still think it's like a dog chasing its tail, but I say it's not a critical issue because if it superficially makes people feel better and helps for a year or two until the prices jump, who am I to say anything one way or the other?
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 11:14:25 PM »

Usually disagree. Not a critical issue.

I still think it's like a dog chasing its tail, but I say it's not a critical issue because if it superficially makes people feel better and helps for a year or two until the prices jump, who am I to say anything one way or the other?
This reminds me, the "we need a minimum wage increase because inflation" talking point has to be one of the most frustrating arguments used by the left. Talk about missing the forest for the trees...
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Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 11:20:33 PM »

Disagree/non-critical, like Goldwater said, I believe the federal minimum wage should be abolished, although states should be allowed to set one if they wish.
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Miles
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2014, 11:21:25 PM »

Agree, as I have a sense of compassion.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2014, 11:29:29 PM »

Agree, as I have a sense of compassion.
So I take it you oppose the perpetual currency debasement that makes it nearly impossible to survive off minimum wage in the first place?
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Miles
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2014, 11:40:39 PM »

Agree, as I have a sense of compassion.
So I take it you oppose the perpetual currency debasement that makes it nearly impossible to survive off minimum wage in the first place?

I've had a minimum wage job myself. I was paid the federal $7.25 wage because, left up to the state of Louisiana, there would be no set minimum wage.

I consider myself a very frugal person and it was often tough. I couldn't imagine sustaining a family on it. With the wealth gap as big as it is in this country, doing away with the minimum wage seems immoral to me.  
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2014, 11:43:56 PM »

Agree, as I have a sense of compassion.
So I take it you oppose the perpetual currency debasement that makes it nearly impossible to survive off minimum wage in the first place?

I've had a minimum wage job myself. I was paid the federal $7.25 wage because, left up to the state of Louisiana, there would be no set minimum wage.

I consider myself a very frugal person and it was often tough. I couldn't imagine sustaining a family on it. With the wealth gap as big as it is in this country, doing away with the minimum wage seems immoral to me.  
That doesn't answer my question.
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Miles
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2014, 11:48:56 PM »


I'm just telling you my experience with this Tongue Living on the minimum wage has kinda, ya know, informed my views on it more than anything else.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2014, 12:06:16 AM »


I'm just telling you my experience with this Tongue Living on the minimum wage has kinda, ya know, informed my views on it more than anything else.
I get that. What I'm trying to say is that you should consider why living costs are so high that a $7.25/hour worker can barely afford to live. Consider that maybe the fact that people can't afford to buy food might have something to do with the fact that our government pays farmers to charge high prices and allows oligopolistic cartels to limit the amount of food that can be produced. Consider that maybe the fact that people can barely afford shelter might have something to do with the fact that local governments make it illegal for developers to build new units and arrest people for renting out rooms. Consider that maybe the fact that people can barely afford to live on minimum wage might have something to do with a central bank that for the last 100 or so years (but only really extremely during the last 40 or so years) has perpetually debased the currency so that real wages are constantly falling and wage earners have to earn more and more to buy the same amount of goods/services as prices constantly rise due to inflation. Or, you could just listen to politicians who support all of those things but are "compassionate" because they blame businesses and want to raise the minimum wage.
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Miles
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2014, 12:19:57 AM »

^ We're gonna have to disagree here. I can tell you've thought a lot about this, which I admire.

In a perfect world, I'm sure your wonderful, dispassionate Libertarian theories would work well.

'Just curious, have you ever lived on the minimum wage? Seems you're eager to blame the politicians, in my mind, the moneyed interests pushing to abolish the minimum wage are likewise disingenuous.
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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2014, 12:39:55 AM »
« Edited: August 28, 2014, 12:42:09 AM by Deus Naturae »

^ We're gonna have to disagree here. I can tell you've thought a lot about this, which I admire.

In a perfect world, I'm sure your wonderful, dispassionate Libertarian theories would work well.

'Just curious, have you ever lived on the minimum wage? Seems you're eager to blame the politicians, in my mind, the moneyed interests pushing to abolish the minimum wage are likewise disingenuous.
No, I haven't. I imagine it's very hard though. I don't know where you're getting the idea that I'm saying it's easy to live off minimum wage. I agree that extremely high living costs are a huge problem...probably THE biggest problem...but I'd rather we try to go after the underlying causes of high living costs than scapegoat employers and price the lowest-skilled workers out of the market.

What "theories" are you talking about? The theory that more people could afford food if farmers weren't paid to make it more expensive or allowed to ban other farmers from producing it? The theory that this:



...isn't just a coincidence?

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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2014, 12:58:56 AM »

So... the logic here is that IF the minimum wage didn't exist and people could be paid a pittance for lower-skill jobs... then the costs of goods and services would therefore drop because a big whack of the economy couldn't afford to purchase them?

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Deus Naturae
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« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2014, 01:11:40 AM »

So... the logic here is that IF the minimum wage didn't exist and people could be paid a pittance for lower-skill jobs... then the costs of goods and services would therefore drop because a big whack of the economy couldn't afford to purchase them?
No, I'm saying the real problem is inflation created by the Federal Reserve.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2014, 01:46:29 AM »

So... the logic here is that IF the minimum wage didn't exist and people could be paid a pittance for lower-skill jobs... then the costs of goods and services would therefore drop because a big whack of the economy couldn't afford to purchase them?
No, I'm saying the real problem is inflation created by the Federal Reserve.

Ah... that chestnut.
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dead0man
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« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2014, 03:21:06 AM »

usually agree/not a crit

Very few people make minimum wage (less that 3% of workers).  If you're working a gig for 6 months at min wage and haven't gotten a raise, either you suck or your employer sucks, either way, get a new min wage job.  On the other hand, raising min wage isn't going to make our soft tacos and cheeseburgers go up dramatically in cost as wages make up a tiny percentage of the cost of a taco.  I've changed my mind on this topic over the last few years.  I was in the "don't raise it/there shouldn't be one" camp for most of my adult life, but I've realized it just doesn't matter all that much.  Raising it a bit will make a lot of people happy and won't hurt me (or you) much at all.

..and yes, I have worked min wage jobs...3 times....all for less than a couple of months as I, like most min wage employees, got a raise and later, GTFO and moved on to something better.
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Miles
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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2014, 08:52:52 AM »

Deus, to be perfectly honest, you're wasting time and pixels here. The OP asked how I usually vote on this question and I answered. Like dead0man, I've changed my stance on this, as I was Neutral before I, 'ya know, got a minumum wage myself. Given the choice between rasing the minumum wage and the status quo, I'd raise it.

You're talking about is deeper reform to the economic system as a whole. Okay, fine. Until those more systematic changes are made, I don't mind paying a few extra cents for a cheesburger.
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Sopranos Republican
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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2014, 09:30:24 AM »

Should be $15/hr, or at very least $12 to start off with. The average fast food worker is getting older and older here people. I love how the biggest opponents of welfare support allowing states to set slave wages, thus forcing those making said wages to receive even more assistance then now on food stamps and other benefits. If the federal minimum wage is abolished, expect to see a massive spike in social security disability payments.
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